Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[SedentaryJourney]

-Graphics: So far what I've seen looks a solid notch below PS360 despite claims, which is a major drag imo. If you're going to get second class graphics anyway, then imo the 3DS becomes a lot more attractive. Hell, is their really that much difference between RE: Mercenaries and what Sony has shown on PSP2 so far? I'd wager squint a little and pretend you're joe six pack and there may not be. The 400X240 3DS res of course is helping its lowly hardware there.


I also find it interesting the CPU/GPU hardware is all third party. So more and more Sony seem to be moving away from hardware design and giving it up out of necessity to western IP. With Ps3 they stuck their fingers in Cell design at least, while most of the system was IBM/Nvidia. Here, nothing. The down side of this is with commoditized hardware, everybody else will have access to the same hardware eventually (hence all the posts anticipating when quad core A9 will inevitably hit smartphones). However it's really no downside as there's nothing Sony could have done custom that ARM cant blow out of the water, the same as Sony can no longer design a GPU that Nvidia and ATI cant blow up with ease.

I wouldn't characterize this as "second class graphics" since it doesn't compete with consoles anyway. No one is expecting NGP to be a competitor to the Xbox 360 or Sony's own PS3. In the portable space this is first class, and close enough to the home console segment to extend properties from that space into the portable category.

It's also obvious that Sony went with the hardware that makes sense for the portable market. I don't think anyone is competitive with a quad core A9 or SGX at this point, not even intel and nvidia. Cell can't compete on wattage either. To be honest, I hope Sony continues to look into developing unique hardware but I don't expect them not to use the best possible solution. Maybe in the future we'll see something like an update to Cell and an in house GPU; IMG proved you don't have to be huge to compete in the GPU space. Also rendering will probably be a lot more programmable in the future.

 

[Xenus]

I like the PSP 2 and will likely get one as soon as I can afford it but the Playstation Suite was a stroke of genius. It's gives Sony a stream of income that is pretty much pure revenue while also protecting themselves in case the smart phones really do start to eat into the PSP2 and 3DS market.

 

[NathansFortune]

The thing is, it was an amazingly bold move from a usually timid company. The biggest problem with Android gaming vs iOS gaming is non-standard controls and no dedicated channel which has kept game developers away and even the larger publishers have decided to keep their distance to see how it all shapes out. With PS-Suite they get their dedicated channel where Android gamers can go and buy their games and it brings a standard control scheme.

As mentioned above it also gives Sony protection from the smartphone encroachment as they will effectively control Android gaming and gain a chunk of the revenue. The best thing about it (I think!) is that the licence is free for vendors and the accreditation is pretty quick.

 

[Rangers]

I like the PSP 2 and will likely get one as soon as I can afford it but the Playstation Suite was a stroke of genius. It's gives Sony a stream of income that is pretty much pure revenue while also protecting themselves in case the smart phones really do start to eat into the PSP2 and 3DS market.

Or, it's Sony quietly becomes a third party

But nah, I haven't studied it but seems like a great move, and as and Android fanboy, something to give Android gaming a much needed shot in the arm vs the recent iOS assualt IE rage, Infinity Blade, etc.

 

[Rangers]

I think Eastmen's "next gen carts on flash" talk was a little bit vindicated. This is next gen hardware, albeit mobile, and supposedly according to Sony themselves PS3 class gfx, and it's going to be delivered on flash carts.

 

[jonabbey]

It's a relief to see Sony pushing aggressively on the tech, but using essentially off the shelf components to do it. They seem to be doing everything right on the hardware, it remains to be seen how they really do with the services stack.

 

[corduroygt]

I think Eastmen's "next gen carts on flash" talk was a little bit vindicated. This is next gen hardware, albeit mobile, and supposedly according to Sony themselves PS3 class gfx, and it's going to be delivered on flash carts.

Completely different considerations on a mobile platform vs. home console.

 

[patsu]

It's a relief to see Sony pushing aggressively on the tech, but using essentially off the shelf components to do it. They seem to be doing everything right on the hardware, it remains to be seen how they really do with the services stack.

I think I will remember APOCALYPS3 and the constant random number generator debacles forever. Those are seriously eye catching headlines.

EDIT: Uh-oh 28th Feb coming soon. I better leave my PS3 off on that day.

 

[Nesh]

Anyone can confirm if it can be connected to a TV or not with complete assurance??

 

[Nesh]

I was a little worried about the NGP before its announcements but the cameras, touch screen and rear touch surface really made me more optimistic.

They appear to bring new gaming opportunities, casual experiences and most importantly accessibility to current Android based games. I assume it will be able to run them right?

If it has all the functions of a tablet and smart phone (minus the phone calls) this could be a winner.

The PS Suite is also an excellent move which will build audience on other platforms and as a result build an appeal for the NGP.

My only gripe so far is the design which is almost identical to the PSP and people will see that product image instead of the real deal. I was expecting something more similar to that

with a few changes of course to make it more comfortable in the hands, the analog sticks better and the rear touch surface more practical. Everything in terms of controls appear to be perfect though.

 

[Rangers]

Completely different considerations on a mobile platform vs. home console.

True, of course. You gain power savings, size savings, cost (base console) savings, and reliability by going solid state in mobile. but still it's pretty impressive for flash imo.

 

[Teasy]

Nintendo stays Nintendo. They chose one new differentiation factor, and decided it would be 3D. If the 3D doesn't work out, then it's just a slightly better DSi with a single analog stick added

IF the 3D didn't work out it would still be a massive improvement over DSi.

 

[draconian]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Model_PS_Suite_To_Support_NonGaming_Apps.php

It appears non-gaming apps are coming to the psp2. I hope they let end users put stuff on it like apple's app store. If they have this, and if it has a webkit based browser and a great ebook reader app, I will buy a psp2. But til then, I'll stick with iOS.

 

[jeff_rigby]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Model_PS_Suite_To_Support_NonGaming_Apps.php

It appears non-gaming apps are coming to the psp2. I hope they let end users put stuff on it like apple's app store. If they have this, and if it has a webkit based browser and a great ebook reader app, I will buy a psp2. But til then, I'll stick with iOS.

Sony added that "newly-developed content" for PS Suite will also be playable on the company's upcoming Next Generation Portable dedicated gaming hardware, which sports two analog sticks, a touch screen and a touch pad on the back.

If it's only "Newly developed content" that will be available. That limitation could require that the NEW application or game is written on a NEW IDE developed by Sony in a hardware neutral format and would be compiled differently for different platforms. So compiled to Android for Android platforms, PSP2 OS for the PSP2 and possibly iOS for that platform.

The following picture shows how a written for PSP2 could work on an Android 2.3 tablet and possibly Apple tablet, an overlay of PSP2 game controls on the touch sensitive screen.:

But Tretton did confirm that Sony's PlayStation Suite of downloadable Android- and NGP-compatible games will also include non-gaming apps. Tretton initially told Engadget that these apps would be available on the PS3 as well, but quickly backtracked, saying he had misspoken.

Nothing for the PS3. I think this confirms the guess above. Sony will apparently have their cake and eat it too. Every application written for the PSP2 will have to go through Sony. No Android applications will run on the PSP2 but Applications written for the PSP2 will also be ported to the Android platform and possibly iOS.

The SNAP developer program that was put on hold November 27, 2010 used many of the Open source libraries and the objective "C" language used by iOS products. The first additions by Sony to that library were for touch screen platforms. I would guess that iOS was the target at that point with a similar to the current PSP2 to Android plan. The hardware choice for the PSP2 certainly would support that speculation as both the GPU and CPU family used is the same for iOS products. EDIT: And also will be used in high end Android tablets. November is also when a rumor surfaced that a "Major platform developer" signed contracts for the PowerVR SGX543 and it was speculated to be Sony for the PSP2. But in the link below Apple has plans to also use the same chip.

http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-news/745029-ios-4-3-driver-bundle-hints-faster-gpu.html

The discovery of a new driver bundle inside the iOS 4.3 beta is suggesting a potentially radical leap in performance for iDevices. The PowerVR SGX543, the smallest OpenCL-capable graphics core, isn't used in any current iOS device, but its inclusion in the beta suggests one or more future device will incorporate it. The power of this co-processor could lead to iPads and iPhones that have comparable performance to notebook computers.

Apple currently uses Imagination Technology's PowerVR SGX535 as the graphics coprocessor in the A4 chip. This is the same GPU used in the iPhone 3GS, as well as the Motorola Droid and the Samsung Galaxy S and Galaxy Tab. It supports OpenGL 2.0 and can render up to 28 million polygons per second with a fillrate of 500 million pixels per second. The next-generation SGX543, by comparison, can render 35 million polygons per second with a fillrate of 1 billion pixels per second. Additionally, the SGX543 supports OpenCL, which means that programs will be able to access the GPU for non-graphical processing, drastically boosting power. It can be stacked it a multi-core configuration, though there might not be space inside the successor to the A4 system-on-a-chip for more than a single graphics core.

Up to the current generation, iOS devices have been perhaps better known for the quality of its software than the speed of its hardware. In 2011, if this chip comes to the platform and growing rumors about a multicore processor are to be believed, that could all be set to change.

Is PSP2 to iOS still planned or did Apple put up some roadblock.

What about the PS3? Can they use the same model to Windows?

Another question, can OpenCL be used for encryption/decryption to allow DRM in WiFI streams, something that the Cell would be used for in the PS3. Is this the reason for choosing a chip that won't be available till the end of 2011 for the PSP2, it will be all Wifi instead of HDMI with HDCP done on the fly by the GPU in the PSP2 using OpenCL.? IF so then this explains ?no video out in the PSP2?

Signing up multiple older Game titles that could run on an Android 2.3 platform might have been started a year ago and Sony was waiting for Android 2.3 to be released. This could also explain Sony management stating that they would have a MASSIVE increase in PSN revenue in 2011-2112

 

[Nesh]

Is it actually 100% confirmed that Android apps wont run on the NGP??
It will be a big plus it it does

 

[jeff_rigby]

Is it actually 100% confirmed that Android apps wont run on the NGP??
It will be a big plus it it does

Ask Shifty

And yes it would be a big plus for US but perhaps not for Sony. Nothing has been confirmed and that's why we can speculate.

I have no objection to Sony locking the PS3 or PSP2 provided SONY can provide games and Apps in a timely fashion. They have not been timely for apps on the PS3.....that has to change. Allowing users to write their own widgets for the PS3 would go a long way to fixing that issue. Hopefully with a new browser Sony will allow this.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Rod Cousens, CEO of Codemasters.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/285938/news/sony-ngp-price-to-match-3ds-expects-codemasters/

"My hope [for the NGP price] is sub £200," Codies CEO Rod Cousens told CVG, "but I suspect something in the 229 - 249 pounds to be more likely."

"Sony knows the lesson of over-engineered hardware and high software development costs only too well - so the more interesting aspect is NGP's eco-system and infrastructure."

"The crossover network and Playstation Suite might be well heeded by the young pretenders in the space; they could well find they have a fight on their hands in getting noticed, and the stakes are rising."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is it actually 100% confirmed that Android apps wont run on the NGP??
It will be a big plus it it does

NGP is not an Android device. PS Suite has both NGP and Android versions, like Flash has versions for PC and Mac that run the same Flash program on different hardwares.

 

[NathansFortune]

Yup, think of PS-Suite like DX or OpenGL, but more basic. It is an API which can run on almost any ARM based SoC.

 

[Nesh]

NGP is not an Android device. PS Suite has both NGP and Android versions, like Flash has versions for PC and Mac that run the same Flash program on different hardwares.

I thought the OS was Android based in a similar fashion as smart phones