The GT5 expectation thread (including preview titles)*
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DonaldDuck
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It seems that the build PD is using in the stage is there in order to obtain feedback about the way users think about their damage model.
In fact, there´re reports (and images) of a more detailed damage model used later, with glasses broken for example, in a new build they may have installed in the consoles of the demo.
I´m sure PD are aware of and respect the additional pressure other titles are going to do in Holydays. From the sales perspective, their product probably have an advantage because of the fame of their pars chapters, but the other titles that will appear near Christmas are REALLY more advanced than they were in previous installments. So PD for sure know that, both technically and content-wise, they must put all their effort.
And in fact I doubt they´re showing all their cards. The damage model, as is being shown, is visually top notch, if not very credible, but precisely because of that I seriously doubt what we see in the videos is the final code.
In fact, I suspect they subtle play with the attention of customers just to decide what to include or exclude of their final release. The list of features that blinked in their webpage probably was a probe...
In this dark situation, I think that
- Damage model would be more advanced that the one shown, but definitely at a price (less cars in-game)
- For sure, the damage model will be "clinic" and probably boring, at least in some way of "ultra-hard" mode, respecting thus realism. That is, every collision at more than 50 Km/h would mean race end. Visually I don´t know if they would allow for car destruction really... graphically do that would be insane (what kind of model use? pre-backed damaged models? It would be nice the first time, but four accidents later I doubt it´d be)
- The interiors of vehicles I´m quite convinced that would be fully modeled, and in all the cars available. If that is not the case, it seems quite difficult to stop people sadness.
But, at the same time, I think that It´s almost impossible, from a raw power perspective, implement the graphical overhaul a metheorology system would need. If we consider the 60frames-1080p handicap (because, it´s 1080 al last?), include transparencies/particles with rain, snow... in a system not precisely alpha blending-friendly have to be a nightmare. Or simply impossible.
Nevertheless, some "alternative" game modes may implement it, let´s say rally races with few (only one, or two) cars on screen.
More probable are different assets for the same circuit in night/day/evening or even dusk conditions.
I have always think of GT as a franchise focused in content and ridiculous attention to detail, offering a realistic-clinic look and a good sense of driving for pleasure. Not precisely racing, but driving. In this context, I suspect PD are pushing for the first time in two ways: the traditional approach to cars a bon vivant would do (seeing cars in garage, reading information about them, looking at the interiors, going to Suzuka and taking some laps, etc) and a new style, more aggresive-competitive, with cars that take damage, in courses that implement -as a test- variable metheorology, a part that is easily improved and increased via DC.
The mix of the two differents environments (the "premium" or competitive cars and the traditional, old-fashion indestructible, just used for driving purposes, vehicles) is what makes us completely out of place with the demo they´re using in the games Convention.
Regards.
In fact, there´re reports (and images) of a more detailed damage model used later, with glasses broken for example, in a new build they may have installed in the consoles of the demo.
I´m sure PD are aware of and respect the additional pressure other titles are going to do in Holydays. From the sales perspective, their product probably have an advantage because of the fame of their pars chapters, but the other titles that will appear near Christmas are REALLY more advanced than they were in previous installments. So PD for sure know that, both technically and content-wise, they must put all their effort.
And in fact I doubt they´re showing all their cards. The damage model, as is being shown, is visually top notch, if not very credible, but precisely because of that I seriously doubt what we see in the videos is the final code.
In fact, I suspect they subtle play with the attention of customers just to decide what to include or exclude of their final release. The list of features that blinked in their webpage probably was a probe...
In this dark situation, I think that
- Damage model would be more advanced that the one shown, but definitely at a price (less cars in-game)
- For sure, the damage model will be "clinic" and probably boring, at least in some way of "ultra-hard" mode, respecting thus realism. That is, every collision at more than 50 Km/h would mean race end. Visually I don´t know if they would allow for car destruction really... graphically do that would be insane (what kind of model use? pre-backed damaged models? It would be nice the first time, but four accidents later I doubt it´d be)
- The interiors of vehicles I´m quite convinced that would be fully modeled, and in all the cars available. If that is not the case, it seems quite difficult to stop people sadness.
But, at the same time, I think that It´s almost impossible, from a raw power perspective, implement the graphical overhaul a metheorology system would need. If we consider the 60frames-1080p handicap (because, it´s 1080 al last?), include transparencies/particles with rain, snow... in a system not precisely alpha blending-friendly have to be a nightmare. Or simply impossible.
Nevertheless, some "alternative" game modes may implement it, let´s say rally races with few (only one, or two) cars on screen.
More probable are different assets for the same circuit in night/day/evening or even dusk conditions.
I have always think of GT as a franchise focused in content and ridiculous attention to detail, offering a realistic-clinic look and a good sense of driving for pleasure. Not precisely racing, but driving. In this context, I suspect PD are pushing for the first time in two ways: the traditional approach to cars a bon vivant would do (seeing cars in garage, reading information about them, looking at the interiors, going to Suzuka and taking some laps, etc) and a new style, more aggresive-competitive, with cars that take damage, in courses that implement -as a test- variable metheorology, a part that is easily improved and increased via DC.
The mix of the two differents environments (the "premium" or competitive cars and the traditional, old-fashion indestructible, just used for driving purposes, vehicles) is what makes us completely out of place with the demo they´re using in the games Convention.
Regards.
I’m now getting a bit worried that GT5 will be a disappointment to me, much like GT4 was, where PD focused on things I didn’t deem important for a racing game (photo mode, training your AI driver, endurance races you don’t have to drive yourself) while things I did care about were lacking (AI, bouncy barriers, cars not being thrown off line by collisions, missing power oversteer and no freaking tyre marks on the road!)
I didn’t get anywhere near completing GT4 (unlike the previous instalments), but this wasn’t due to the lack of time spent on the game. I found the incompetence of the AI, collision physics and ill conceived penalty system on some tracks ruined the racing as I wanted a more advanced experience than that of GT1. As a direct result I spent most of my time lapping the Nordschleife, and some other great tracks in various cars (Ruf BTR, CTR, Lotus Carlton, etc.). The problem with this was that I never got to drive many of the cars that got me so excited about the game, 190e Evo II anyone?.
Looking at GT5 I can feel it going the same way, online racing may prove good fun with private races (how about adhoc tournaments?), but many of the cars will no doubt only be available for winning single player tournaments. If the AI is still poor I don’t know whether I will be bothered.
Many of my gripes with GT4 are still present with Prologue and also these latest videos, the one saving grace maybe that what has been shown is an early build and things are currently much more advanced, in all aspects. Graphically is does look good though.
Come on PD, fix the racing.
I didn’t get anywhere near completing GT4 (unlike the previous instalments), but this wasn’t due to the lack of time spent on the game. I found the incompetence of the AI, collision physics and ill conceived penalty system on some tracks ruined the racing as I wanted a more advanced experience than that of GT1. As a direct result I spent most of my time lapping the Nordschleife, and some other great tracks in various cars (Ruf BTR, CTR, Lotus Carlton, etc.). The problem with this was that I never got to drive many of the cars that got me so excited about the game, 190e Evo II anyone?.
Looking at GT5 I can feel it going the same way, online racing may prove good fun with private races (how about adhoc tournaments?), but many of the cars will no doubt only be available for winning single player tournaments. If the AI is still poor I don’t know whether I will be bothered.
Many of my gripes with GT4 are still present with Prologue and also these latest videos, the one saving grace maybe that what has been shown is an early build and things are currently much more advanced, in all aspects. Graphically is does look good though.
Come on PD, fix the racing.
I don't really care anymore for the single player racing... Online is the way to go. With private rooms and communities the online racing should be good and give the most satisfaction. I see myself playing single player only to gather money(if easier in single player than online) and to do practice and car tuning laps without other cars.
Gamersyde.com released 2 better quality videos this morning:
Cockpit view video (60fps): http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gamescom_gt5_cockpit_view-8422_en.html
Replay video (30fps): http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gamescom_gt5_replay_video-8427_en.html
Both videos are for the same race.
Cockpit view video (60fps): http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gamescom_gt5_cockpit_view-8422_en.html
Replay video (30fps): http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gamescom_gt5_replay_video-8427_en.html
Both videos are for the same race.
While in theory I agree, the problem is that state of the online play and players. Online is full of muppets, I was racing with some guy, who was a good driver but he still shot across the grass of Degner 2 every lap of every race. While private races are great, you can’t guarantee that your friends will be playing when you feel like a quick blast. Also it depends on whether or not the cars you want are only available by winning a particular offline tournament.
Damage implementation in iRacing
iRacing's implementation of damage appears to be very impressive. I'm curious if other GT fans would be interested in seeing a similar implementation (if possible) in the GT series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfoR89NODmw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5-eWRyRpcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu6vkaQVM38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1yggjKDNc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG_wZP9d5QU
A description of the damage system:
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112173
iRacing's implementation of damage appears to be very impressive. I'm curious if other GT fans would be interested in seeing a similar implementation (if possible) in the GT series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfoR89NODmw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5-eWRyRpcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu6vkaQVM38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1yggjKDNc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG_wZP9d5QU
A description of the damage system:
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=112173
That's why there are communities such as gtplanet. I'm certain they will have good quality private rooms for those people who want to race fair... and those who don't apply to community set rules will be kicked out from those private rooms
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
I like the iRacing damage system. If this was implemented in GT5, people would probably cry about it being too realistic (crash = end game). I think the driving physics and graphics aren't as good as what I've seen from the GT5 demo videos, though. The AI routine seems pretty good. Of course, AI is non-existent when racing online with max player count.
I think the driving physics and graphics aren't as good as what I've seen from the GT5 demo videos, though. The AI routine seems pretty good. Of course, AI is non-existent when racing online with max player count.There are three types of "damage", collision dynamics, mechanical damage (wheels, suspension, drive train, etc.) and body damage.
The iRacing video shows good collision dynamics and mechanical damage, but no body damage.
GT5 so far displays awful collision dynamics, okay mechanical damage (wobbling of car), and a commendable first-principles approach to body damage that still needs quite a bit more work.
The poor collision dynamics suggests that GT5's on-road driving model uses a very specialized physics model that doesn't react well to arbitrary forces on the car. iRacing, OTOH, seems to use a more general physics model for the on-road handling, which makes realistic collision behaviour a very natural consequence.
The iRacing video shows good collision dynamics and mechanical damage, but no body damage.
GT5 so far displays awful collision dynamics, okay mechanical damage (wobbling of car), and a commendable first-principles approach to body damage that still needs quite a bit more work.
The poor collision dynamics suggests that GT5's on-road driving model uses a very specialized physics model that doesn't react well to arbitrary forces on the car. iRacing, OTOH, seems to use a more general physics model for the on-road handling, which makes realistic collision behaviour a very natural consequence.
It's a bit tricky to determine what it's like, what with the player car the only car that can have damage in the first place. What I did find interesting is that in one of the movies, you'll see the player car go on top of an RX-7. That suggests a fairly big change in the physics model. Elsewhere it was suggested that the car can in fact flip over, but there weren't any ramps in this track so we can't tell yet how that would turn out visavis a similar situation in the iRacing demo, which uses small hills to launch the car.
That's scarily wrong.
GT doesn't have damage on the other cars besides your own? That ****ing sucks, either implement damage well, or not implement it at all.
In this demo! I'm not saying anything about the full game. It's probably just one of many options when setting up a custom Arcade race.
I'm not sure if that's the case. I thought it was just race cars in that demo...not road cars. And that arcade allowed a mix.
Ha. Talk about premature...
Premature would be basing a decision now on an unfinished product, saying 'this damage sucks so I won't buy GT5', whereas criticisms now are relevant observations of the current showing.
The current damage model does not please some folk, who hope it either changes or is removed, and who will wait and see what the final game has to offer.
Well yes, exactly. It'll probably an option to race against only cars that can also have damage for instance, or a mixed selection that also includes non-damage receiving cars. But besides that, as far as I can tell in this particular demo, your car is the only one that receives damage (it was an option even here I believe?) as I don't think the number 3 Ford Focus rally car received any damage for instance.
Agreed, but that's not what was said now was it?
"GT doesn't have damage on the other cars besides your own?"
He didn't say what we saw at GamesCom in the GT demo. So yes, it was premature anger and swearing. Anyway..
Especially when we know that it was a very early damage model.
Moreover, we don't know it's only your car in the demo - more likely only race cars.
TheWretched
Regular
I played it at GamesCom yesterday and can confirm no damage on other cars, but many/most cars are NOT racecars either (I crashed into a normal 370Z).
Iron Tiger
Regular
I wouldn't mind seeing a Mini Cooper ramping off a Reventon.
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