Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

[GhostofWar]

Richard mentioned in this video that the target market for PC is not the same as Console....

I think it's a fair opinion, there is some overlap but you just have to look at the steam top ccu list to see the most popular things. We continually see battleground, extraction shooters and survival/crafting genres selling better than aaa games on PC.

 

[trinibwoy]

I think it's a fair opinion, there is some overlap but you just have to look at the steam top ccu list to see the most popular things. We continually see battleground, extraction shooters and survival/crafting genres selling better than aaa games on PC.

CCU isn’t a very good indicator of sales and will be dominated by games with high replayability / multiplayer. Single player story based games will never be at the top of those charts.

 

[arandomguy]

You'd have basically have to weigh the amount of users that are do play SP multiplat games but exclusively on the PC (or at least not on the Playstation) or those that only occasionally play SP multiplat games on the PC that otherwise have zero inclination to buy a console (or PS) versus those that are mulitplatform owners (or really PS/PC owners) who only buy a PS for their exclusive SP games.

Richard mentioned in this video that the target market for PC is not the same as Console.... I don't know that I necessarily agree with that at all. Firstly, what evidence is that based on? Its just now that Sony is implementing their own account system on pc that would allow them to actually gather that data. Also, if the target market is different, then there should not be a large overlap in terms of the games consumed between both markets but, that's also not necessarily true.

Secondly, I've been looking at a few forums now and the although it's just the hard core, around 50% are expressing that they will not purchase a console if the games release day and date on the PC. That's a dangerous game for Sony to play lest they end up in the same kerfuffle as Microsoft. Now you can argue that the Microsoft's issues are different as DF attempted to in this video. To a certain extent, they're correct but, the crux of the issue is simply this.... Why should someone invest into your platform if your games are available elsewhere. Frankly, if Sony start releasing their games day and date, I can see many just purchasing Nintendo and PC. I most certainly would steer in that direction.

It's an interesting problem for Sony because if they commit in that direction, they'll most certainly see a drop in subscription revenue and store revenue. They're collecting 30% of every purchase in their store now but, if people leave your platform, you lose that revenue. Now, will the sales of games offset that? I'm not so sure especially with how inconsistent their release schedule is..... In my opinion, it would be wise to treat it on a case by case basis. There's a reason why movies go theatres -> platform exclusive subscription service -> physical and digital release -> general subscription release. It's all about maximizing revenue and releasing day and date in my opinion works against that objective.

The other option is Sony or Microsoft feel they can establish their own platform foothold on the PC.

Personally I don't like this idea that PC gaming should just go through Steam as a given.

 

[eastmen]

How is this even possible? We had been hearing the exact opposite for years now lol…

What was MS their strategy, having journalists spread FUD about superior streaming competitors?
Again, very short sighted

MS started rolling out hardware for xcloud in 2020 so of course it will be behind competitors who started rolling out hardware later. When MS does a refresh those who haven't done one yet will be behind. Its just the way it works.

 

[Cyan]

Microsoft DirectSR (Super Resolution) To Be Revealed At GDC 2024

Microsoft's Super Resolution Game Upscaling Is Limited to the Snapdragon X Elite at Launch

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/microsofts-super-resolution-game-upscaling-is-limited-to-the-snapdragon

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Personally I don't like this idea that PC gaming should just go through Steam as a given.

I love competition. But I realized recently just how amazingly good Steam is at what it does. If I'd taken half a second to think I'd have bought Hades II off the Epic store so more of my money would go to the devs. But Steam makes it so damned easy to find and buy and play games that I'd already bought it off there on early access launch day before my brain had time to kick in at all. Whereas the Epic store popups are so annoying I make a point of closing it all the way whenever possible.

Steam is shockingly good versus every other app store in existence, which is why it can dominate on an OS that Microsoft titularly owns. I'd imagine they could do similar to iOS and Android if/when they're actually allowed to. I avoid the Play/App store like the plague as a general rule, while I literally browse Steam if I'm bored enough to see what sort of whacky assed weird indie games are popular (the weird "simulator" subgenre and whatever "run a middle eastern gaming cafe" or etc. they come up with is usually fun to just browse).

 

[Cyan]

I love competition. But I realized recently just how amazingly good Steam is at what it does. If I'd taken half a second to think I'd have bought Hades II off the Epic store so more of my money would go to the devs. But Steam makes it so damned easy to find and buy and play games that I'd already bought it off there on early access launch day before my brain had time to kick in at all. Whereas the Epic store popups are so annoying I make a point of closing it all the way whenever possible.

Steam is shockingly good versus every other app store in existence, which is why it can dominate on an OS that Microsoft titularly owns. I'd imagine they could do similar to iOS and Android if/when they're actually allowed to. I avoid the Play/App store like the plague as a general rule, while I literally browse Steam if I'm bored enough to see what sort of whacky assed weird indie games are popular (the weird "simulator" subgenre and whatever "run a middle eastern gaming cafe" or etc. they come up with is usually fun to just browse).

Steam is superb. The only flaws I could find about Steam is optimization of games, and things like the use of gamepads, where PC Gamepass is the best imho. Steam input gets in the way and causes a lot of havoc to the point that I have to manually disable it for most games, while on the pc gamepass app its a breeze -there is an advantage at least for other stores-.

 

[see colon]

I love competition. But I realized recently just how amazingly good Steam is at what it does. If I'd taken half a second to think I'd have bought Hades II off the Epic store so more of my money would go to the devs. But Steam makes it so damned easy to find and buy and play games that I'd already bought it off there on early access launch day before my brain had time to kick in at all. Whereas the Epic store popups are so annoying I make a point of closing it all the way whenever possible.

I know people hate it, but I'm not offended by Windows Store. Not only do they have a developer/publisher friendly revenue split (85-95% goes to publisher/developer, and the rest to Microsoft), there are also more than a few games that give you the Xbox version and the PC version with the same purchase. Back 4 Blood was like this, had full crossplay and my game save sync'd across systems as well. I think it might be part of the deal Microsoft cuts to get things on Gamepass, because lots of games that launched on Xbox day 1 into Gamepass are there, like Dragon Quest XI and the Yakuza games.

I don't buy every game there, in fact I'm fairly store agnostic, but if I can get a console version and a PC version for one price, that's certainly a motivating factor for me.

 

[Cynicalking]

Steam is superb. The only flaws I could find about Steam is optimization of games, and things like the use of gamepads, where PC Gamepass is the best imho. Steam input gets in the way and causes a lot of havoc to the point that I have to manually disable it for most games, while on the pc gamepass app its a breeze -there is an advantage at least for other stores-.

But isn't Gamepass compatible only with Xbox controllers? With steam you can use any controller. I doubt you can use a DS4 or DS5 natively for any Gamepass game.

 

[see colon]

But isn't Gamepass compatible only with Xbox controllers? With steam you can use any controller. I doubt you can use a DS4 or DS5 natively for any Gamepass game.

It might be game dependent, and I do think there is a requirement of sorts to support Xbox controllers, I don't believe that there is a requirement to exclude other controllers. I know from experience that I've played Vampire Survivors with a Direct Input controller and it worked fine. I also tried the Bluey game and the same controller wasn't detected. But, to be fair, the gamepad I'm using is a 6 button Saturn style pad with no analog sticks. So maybe it detects if the controller is compatible and not just the input method.

-Update- I tested with a PS3 fight stick. It's a Madcatz Street Fighter IV model. It has a switch that allows the stick to be left or right stick, or the Dpad, and I got the same results. Works in Vampire Survivors, does not work in Bluey. I tried a PS4 fight stick, got the same results, works in VS, not in Bluey. Then I tested both fight sticks with the Windows Store and Steam versions of Back 4 Blood. It was a Gamepass game, and it's one of the few games I own on both platforms and have them both installed on the same PC. Both fight sticks and the Saturn pad didn't work in either version of the game. Next, I got out my PS4 controller. But it appears I don't have a working micro USB cable that does anything but provide power. So I bluetooth sync'd the controller to my PC. This may affect the results because I know Playstation controllers act differently on PC if they are wired or wireless, but it's the best I got right now. Same results. Works in VS, doesn't work in Bluey or Windows store Back 4 Blood. But the Steam version of Back 4 Blood.... It didn't work there either. Next I tested with a Hyperkin Pixel Art controller. It's a SNES style controller but with dual analogs and 4 shoulder buttons, kind of like an 8Bitdo SN30. It's designed for Switch, but has a hardware switch that is labeled Switch and Bluetooth. In Switch mode, it works in VS, and works with Steam Back 4 Blood but not Windows Store Back 4 Blood or Bluey. In Bluetooth mode, it works with every game I tested, but it also shows up as an Xinput controller. But, I only have Switch controllers configured for Steam Input! I'm willing to bet that all of those controllers could be made to work with the Steam version of the game if I configured Steam Input, or used a program to emulate XInput.

My conclusion is that Direct Input has reached the point where it is mostly unsupported by most games, regardless if they are on Gamepass or not. Steam Input and Xinput emulators can likely circumvent these limitations.

 

[Seanspeed]

I love competition. But I realized recently just how amazingly good Steam is at what it does. If I'd taken half a second to think I'd have bought Hades II off the Epic store so more of my money would go to the devs. But Steam makes it so damned easy to find and buy and play games that I'd already bought it off there on early access launch day before my brain had time to kick in at all. Whereas the Epic store popups are so annoying I make a point of closing it all the way whenever possible.

Steam is shockingly good versus every other app store in existence, which is why it can dominate on an OS that Microsoft titularly owns. I'd imagine they could do similar to iOS and Android if/when they're actually allowed to. I avoid the Play/App store like the plague as a general rule, while I literally browse Steam if I'm bored enough to see what sort of whacky assed weird indie games are popular (the weird "simulator" subgenre and whatever "run a middle eastern gaming cafe" or etc. they come up with is usually fun to just browse).

Dont worry about buying Hades from Steam dude. The game is selling super well, and it's a self-published title. Supergiant are doing very well no matter where you buy their game.

And yes, as much as I generally support competition, Steam is really just the best and it's a private company run by somebody with an abnormally healthy view of looking after the consumer and putting to practice free market ideas in a way that benefits them and users both.

Should we ever invent age-enhancing treatments, somebody needs to put Gabe up high on the list...

 

[davis.anthony]

Ignore.

 

[Cyan]

But isn't Gamepass compatible only with Xbox controllers? With steam you can use any controller. I doubt you can use a DS4 or DS5 natively for any Gamepass game.

not in my experience. I have 4 cheap controllers, 2 are X360 XB1 style gamepads (Canyon GPW3 and one from an unknown brand) and they work like a charm on PC Gamepass. I also have two PS4 like gamepads, also not official gamepads from Sony and they also work well.

Those gamepads work ok in Steam but for 2 players games sometimes I gotta disable STeam Input, and can be a pita to find the culprit of why the 2nd controller isn't detected. I found the issue as of recently.

Dunno about other more exotic gamepads like @see colon has.

 

[XboxKING]

I love competition. But I realized recently just how amazingly good Steam is at what it does. If I'd taken half a second to think I'd have bought Hades II off the Epic store so more of my money would go to the devs. But Steam makes it so damned easy to find and buy and play games that I'd already bought it off there on early access launch day before my brain had time to kick in at all. Whereas the Epic store popups are so annoying I make a point of closing it all the way whenever possible.

Steam is shockingly good versus every other app store in existence, which is why it can dominate on an OS that Microsoft titularly owns. I'd imagine they could do similar to iOS and Android if/when they're actually allowed to. I avoid the Play/App store like the plague as a general rule, while I literally browse Steam if I'm bored enough to see what sort of whacky assed weird indie games are popular (the weird "simulator" subgenre and whatever "run a middle eastern gaming cafe" or etc. they come up with is usually fun to just browse).

I always try to buy on steam; in the event that the game sucks at least I know the developers received she smallest possible financial compensation xD

 

[Frenetic Pony]

not in my experience. I have 4 cheap controllers, 2 are X360 XB1 style gamepads (Canyon GPW3 and one from an unknown brand) and they work like a charm on PC Gamepass. I also have two PS4 like gamepads, also not official gamepads from Sony and they also work well.

Those gamepads work ok in Steam but for 2 players games sometimes I gotta disable STeam Input, and can be a pita to find the culprit of why the 2nd controller isn't detected. I found the issue as of recently.

Dunno about other more exotic gamepads like @see colon has.

I've only got "Official" MS and Sony controllers (spent too much money on offbrands that fail relatively quickly over the years, $50 is worth it if it lasts a decade+) and I've never had a problem with Steam Input, fascinating that it doesn't work well with some stuff.

 

[Cyan]

I've only got "Official" MS and Sony controllers (spent too much money on offbrands that fail relatively quickly over the years, $50 is worth it if it lasts a decade+) and I've never had a problem with Steam Input, fascinating that it doesn't work well with some stuff.

for single player games I've had no issues, but when it comes to games that can be played by 2 players or more, Steam input can be a headache.

Two examples, if you have both games, give them a try.

Hotshot Racing: with Steam input it's literally impossible for my nephews, which are kids, to play the game together. Until I disabled Steam input, I could never play using two gamepads, one for each player.

Pang Adventures: This is even worse. In this case it is literally IMPOSSIBLE -at least for me- for 2 players to play together using gamepads. Super Pang is one of my favourite games, and no matter what, even if I disable Steam Input, the game chooses the keyboard as the controller for the 2nd player. I wanted my nephew to play this game together, but it's impossible.

edit: in this case I don't know what the problem is, whether you enable or disable Steam input, the second player must use a keyboard. But I am sure that wouldn't happen on pc gamepass.

edit2: found the solution, not hard, but it's so non intuitive.

Controller issues..with local co-op 2 controllers :: Pang Adventures General Discussions

I was trying to play co-op with my cousin, and using two logitech F310 controllers, but for some reason, it thinks both controllers are considered one controller. On one of them, you can move the character, on the other, you can shoot..because of this, i cannot play local co-op. Any help please?

steamcommunity.com

that works flawlessly, but I had to disable Steam input, if I didn't the second gamepad is never detected by the game.

 

[see colon]

Dunno about other more exotic gamepads like @see colon has.

I don't think any of the games I tried work with a jogcon if that's what you are getting at. But maybe I can test that in a few days.

I've only got "Official" MS and Sony controllers (spent too much money on offbrands that fail relatively quickly over the years, $50 is worth it if it lasts a decade+) and I've never had a problem with Steam Input, fascinating that it doesn't work well with some stuff.

Good luck getting that kind of longevity out of a modern PS5/Series controller. Source - I work at a games store and repair controllers for a living.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Good luck getting that kind of longevity out of a modern PS5/Series controller. Source - I work at a games store and repair controllers for a living.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Good luck getting that kind of longevity out of a modern PS5/Series controller. Source - I work at a games store and repair controllers for a living.

I've bought 3 DS4 controllers this past month to try to replace my original, all with dodgy thumbsticks. Seems there are more forgeries than real ones being made!

 

[see colon]

I've bought 3 DS4 controllers this past month to try to replace my original, all with dodgy thumbsticks. Seems there are more forgeries than real ones being made!

Yeah, the DS4 bootlegs come in pretty legit looking packaging at this point. The quality doesn't match the originals, but the originals still are prone to brake.