Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2024]

[Andrew Lauritzen]

the problem is this new trend we are witnessing where certain games will increase LOD and shadow draw distance upon increasing the resolution, thus putting more burden on the CPU.

Wait, how is that a "problem"? That is how it *should* work. Your LOD selection *should* be relative to pixel density in both primary view and shadow rendering (not so much the draw distance, but the resolution of the shadow maps). It would naturally be with any raytracing path, so why would you not want it to be with rasterization?

I'm pretty confident in saying that conventional games that did not scale these things based on screen resolution were doing it wrong, mostly out of convenience and the fact that in the past aspect ratio and resolution scaling were less of wide spectrum than they are today.

I haven't yet got a chance to listen to the DF discussion yet though. With Nanite and VSMs these increases in shadow resolution and LODs do not really impact the CPU much at all, so I'm not entirely sure where that part would be coming from with UE5/Hellblade specifically.

 

[Dictator]

@Andrew Lauritzen
I think what is being rederenced is how Hellbalde 2 recommends a 10700K for 1440p 30 fps high settings and then a 12600K for 4K 30 fps high settings. As If that extra Bit of res magically requires so much more CPU grunt.

It is probably an oversight in the rec Specs.

 

[Seanspeed]

@Andrew Lauritzen
I think what is being rederenced is how Hellbalde 2 recommends a 10700K for 1440p 30 fps high settings and then a 12600K for 4K 30 fps high settings. As If that extra Bit of res magically requires so much more CPU grunt.

It is probably an oversight in the rec Specs.

You see this in like 90% of 'requirement' specs for games. And goes to show they shouldn't be taken that seriously and are only rough guesses for the most part, not something that a bunch of thorough testing went into or anything.

 

[raytracingfan]

You see this in like 90% of 'requirement' specs for games. And goes to show they shouldn't be taken that seriously and are only rough guesses for the most part, not something that a bunch of thorough testing went into or anything.

It's probably something as simple as whoever wrote the requirements had one PC with a 10700K and a certain GPU and another PC with a 12600K and a much more powerful GPU, so they simply specified the requirements to be the specs of the PCs they tested with.

 

[function]

Fallout 4 next gen almost out of Beta and ready for release! Finally as polished* on Xbox as PS5!

*matte

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Fallout 4 next gen almost out of Beta and ready for release! Finally as polished* on Xbox as PS5!

*matte

Consoles and their shader stutter...smh

Spoiler

/jk

 

[trinibwoy]

Wow Fallout 4 is almost 10 years old. It’s getting a lot of air time for such an old game. The shadow draw distance on console looks pretty horrible in the video. I guess people just get used to it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Wow Fallout 4 is almost 10 years old. It’s getting a lot of air time for such an old game.

Successful TV series.

 

[chris1515]

They reach 80 millions viewers in one month. Ring of Power reach 100 millions viewers in 3 months and a half. The serie is huge.

 

[DavidGraham]

Starfield had to drop to 900p with DRS to maintain 60fps in the new performance mode, it can't do 60fps in big cities though, which suggests a clear CPU bottleneck as the game drops to 40fps or lower in these sections.

 

[Seanspeed]

Starfield had to drop to 900p with DRS to maintain 60fps in the new performance mode, it can't do 60fps in big cities though, which suggests a clear CPU bottleneck as the game drops to 40fps or lower in these sections.

Big question is - how much of the CPU bottleneck was actually improved through all this?

 

[eastmen]

Starfield had to drop to 900p with DRS to maintain 60fps in the new performance mode, it can't do 60fps in big cities though, which suggests a clear CPU bottleneck as the game drops to 40fps or lower in these sections.

Like Final Fantasy from last year .

This is why I think MS can capitalize on a zen 5/6 cpu console next year

 

[XboxKING]

How is this even possible? We had been hearing the exact opposite for years now lol…

What was MS their strategy, having journalists spread FUD about superior streaming competitors?
Again, very short sighted

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How is this even possible? We had been hearing the exact opposite for years now lol…

Because it was. Sony bought a company last year that uses AI to upscale. Even if not in use for PS5 streaming, MS may have just not upgraded their tech where Sony has.

What was MS their strategy, having journalists spread FUD about superior streaming competitors?

Doesn't need a conspiracy theory or MS bashing to explain. Please just stick to intelligent, technical discussion. If something confuses you, ask and maybe you'll get a sensible or informed answer.

 

[XboxKING]

Because it was. Sony bought a company last year that uses AI to upscale. Even if not in use for PS5 streaming, MS may have just not upgraded their tech where Sony has.

Doesn't need a conspiracy theory or MS bashing to explain. Please just stick to intelligent, technical discussion. If something confuses you, ask and maybe you'll get a sensible or informed answer.

xcloud vs playstation now at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

the digital foundry article contradicts everything ever written about this subject so…

 

[Shifty Geezer]

xcloud vs playstation now at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

I don't understand what this page of search results means.

the digital foundry article contradicts everything ever written about this subject so…

The DF article is looking at the service now, as opposed to what it's been since Sony acquired Gaikai. Sony have greatly improved PS streaming since their earlier Gaikai days. That doesn't contradict everything said about the two services over the years.

Edit: Older DF article:

PlayStation Now's PS4 game performance analysed

There was a time when the idea of streaming games over the internet was the hottest, most disruptive technology in the …

www.eurogamer.net

"However, the specs don't alter when streaming PlayStation 4 games, meaning that the standard 1080p framebuffer gets a 720p downscale before encoding, then it's blown up to the display output set on the client."

eg. It used to be a 720p stream for every game.

 

[iroboto]

The PS premium service is only meant to used for play before you install. It does not have high concurrent availability and no DLC is supported. Meaning it’s not a high availability cloud streaming service. High fidelity games can only be for select PS5 games and for PS5 console owners. All other titles use the older gaikai service.

It’s extremely limited.

 

[DavidGraham]

0:00:56 News 01: Ghost of Tsushima PC impressions!
0:16:05 News 02: Assassin’s Creed Shadows announced
0:25:33 News 03: PlayStation news roundup!
0:49:10 News 04: GTA 6 to arrive in fall 2025
0:55:22 News 05: Red Dead Redemption possibly coming to PC
1:02:30 News 06: PO’ed remaster released
1:12:13 News 07: John and Oliver’s new TVs!
1:28:42 Supporter Q1: Will the changes to Xbox strategy reduce console competition?
1:36:49 Supporter Q2: Does an Xbox-PC hybrid really make sense?
1:43:49 Supporter Q3: Could Nvidia’s rumoured ARM handheld SoC wipe the floor with Nintendo and Valve?
1:48:50 Supporter Q4: Are there gaming applications for OpenAI’s recently revealed AI tech?
1:52:40 Supporter Q5: What are your most highly anticipated games for the rest of the year in terms of tech?
1:56:21 Supporter Q6: How do you prefer to set up your PC displays when gaming?
1:58:54 Supporter Q7: What are your thoughts on producing repeated videos on games that are delivered in a subpar state?
2:04:25 Supporter Q8: What’s the latest gaming and tech news you’ve enjoyed?

 

[Cyan]

1:36:49 Supporter Q2: Does an Xbox-PC hybrid really make sense?

the DF staff talking like the angels here. They are totally right, imho, and with a hybrid handheld Microsoft could open the device to other stores or even create a hub or fronted to other stores to launch with the device (say Sony wants to have their own store on PC), not even taking royalties, but with a direct link to gamepass.

Microsoft would be gaining the fact of selling a Windows license, and most of all, let it pass a few days, people would be subscribing to gamepass in droves.

Maybe Sony could create a Sony VAIO xboy that launches with their own PC store as if it was their device, opening up the possibility for people to subscribe to gamepass.

 

[Boss]

0:00:56 News 01: Ghost of Tsushima PC impressions!
0:16:05 News 02: Assassin’s Creed Shadows announced
0:25:33 News 03: PlayStation news roundup!
0:49:10 News 04: GTA 6 to arrive in fall 2025
0:55:22 News 05: Red Dead Redemption possibly coming to PC
1:02:30 News 06: PO’ed remaster released
1:12:13 News 07: John and Oliver’s new TVs!
1:28:42 Supporter Q1: Will the changes to Xbox strategy reduce console competition?
1:36:49 Supporter Q2: Does an Xbox-PC hybrid really make sense?
1:43:49 Supporter Q3: Could Nvidia’s rumoured ARM handheld SoC wipe the floor with Nintendo and Valve?
1:48:50 Supporter Q4: Are there gaming applications for OpenAI’s recently revealed AI tech?
1:52:40 Supporter Q5: What are your most highly anticipated games for the rest of the year in terms of tech?
1:56:21 Supporter Q6: How do you prefer to set up your PC displays when gaming?
1:58:54 Supporter Q7: What are your thoughts on producing repeated videos on games that are delivered in a subpar state?
2:04:25 Supporter Q8: What’s the latest gaming and tech news you’ve enjoyed?

Richard mentioned in this video that the target market for PC is not the same as Console.... I don't know that I necessarily agree with that at all. Firstly, what evidence is that based on? Its just now that Sony is implementing their own account system on pc that would allow them to actually gather that data. Also, if the target market is different, then there should not be a large overlap in terms of the games consumed between both markets but, that's also not necessarily true.

Secondly, I've been looking at a few forums now and the although it's just the hard core, around 50% are expressing that they will not purchase a console if the games release day and date on the PC. That's a dangerous game for Sony to play lest they end up in the same kerfuffle as Microsoft. Now you can argue that the Microsoft's issues are different as DF attempted to in this video. To a certain extent, they're correct but, the crux of the issue is simply this.... Why should someone invest into your platform if your games are available elsewhere. Frankly, if Sony start releasing their games day and date, I can see many just purchasing Nintendo and PC. I most certainly would steer in that direction.

It's an interesting problem for Sony because if they commit in that direction, they'll most certainly see a drop in subscription revenue and store revenue. They're collecting 30% of every purchase in their store now but, if people leave your platform, you lose that revenue. Now, will the sales of games offset that? I'm not so sure especially with how inconsistent their release schedule is..... In my opinion, it would be wise to treat it on a case by case basis. There's a reason why movies go theatres -> platform exclusive subscription service -> physical and digital release -> general subscription release. It's all about maximizing revenue and releasing day and date in my opinion works against that objective.