ZOE2 tgs trailer

[PC-Engine]

You don't have control over characters in cutscenes

But the PS2 IS rendering the rest of the environment, unlike Shenmue´s demo. BTW, I just saw some Xbox pics of Shenmue 2, and Ryo´s model doesn´t even compare to what is shown in the demo, not even in cutscenes. It´s far, far less detailed. I don´t know what you´re arguing really, in this case you´re comparing a demo with 0% of chances of happening in the real game (DC´s poligon budget was just too low) versus a game that is being displayed on a real game. It really is lacking in the logic department.

When the camera zooms in during the cutscenes in SH3 the detail is very high within the camera window, 90% of everything outside the window is NOT being rendered so in effect you have a Shenmue demo going but without the control

The ingame graphics in SH3 isn't of the same quality of the cutscenes either so where's the logic in bringing that up regarding Shenmue?

You are looking at PR shots of SH3 aren't you? Have you seen detailed ingame shots of SH3? Their detail level isn't the same as those in the cutscenes Specifically closeup high detail cutscene shots. The wide camera angle SH3 cutscenes are LOD managed like the ingame stuff so the detail is down just like Shenmue's ingame and cutscene stuff so there's not much of an advantage there either.

 

[zurich]

 

[PC-Engine]

If you don't understand then just ask. The people who understand what I'm taking about are listening. I'm trying to have an intelligent debate. Let's not start acting like f*nboys

 

[marconelly!]

The ingame graphics in SH3 isn't of the same quality of the cutscenes either so where's the logic in bringing that up regarding Shenmue?

We don't really know that yet, but, again, Justin / IGN who played the game said the in game models looked just like those in cut scenes. Lighting and shadows ingame and in cut scenes look the same to me judging from this trailer.

 

[zidane1strife]

WTF?!? what's shenmue doing here, that's basically a psx title with poly upgrades in da faces and some areas!!! It's blocka shimmerathon!!!
Clearly the same engine for the game is used on those techy demos, and although impressive it is very clear the real world performance of such engine.

Sure the shenmue demos are nice and all, so where many of the original ps2 demos, with what was it? something like 100K poly heads?!?

I dunno but the ingame SH3 in my eyes beats the techy demos in shenmue... although my memory could be failing me.... but i doubt it...

 

[Vince]

Wow, this is a good looking game to you? The PS2's biggest budget game thats somewhat along the same lines in level design is The Getaway and it eats this alive.


But, going back to the Tech Demo, which looks nothing like the actual game - how does this:

Look anywhere below or even near this:

The texturing, lighting, and polygonal mesh in SH3s characters are so much better. It's easy to do the flawless, rubbery look - kind of reminds me of Outcast2's outdoor textures (just the outdoor textures, everything else was supurb) ; nothing technically amazing, but artistically well done and... try making a face thats realistic. nVidia has(d) a demo that launched with NV20 that had a gypsy IIRC and looked similar to the old man - it's useage of fragment shading and had an increadably dense mesh that was amazing. The DC couldn't even come close to that.

Forget a contemporary head demo on DC< do one on PS2 or preferable XBox. It's usage of fragment shading would be mind-boggling. Hell, if your just rendering a head, the polygon mesh could be amazingly dense - 10 to 15M polygons for a demo face on the 'box would impressive in itself.

 

[marconelly!]

15 to 20M polygons for a face on the 'box would impressive in itself

Only if you want 1FPS or less than that

You could have a 600,000 polygon face at 30ish FPS I think, although, what would be the point of modeling the face with such an insane number of polygons?

 

[Vince]

Shenmue Old Man:

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMedia...p://dreamcast.ign.com/objects/014/014499.html

EDIT: IGN link doesn't want to work... so I switched to the URL.


Silent Hill 3 Old Man:

Like looking at Toy Story1 and FF:TSW....

Also note that the Shenmue demo Old Man has no background at all... *Cough*

You could have a 600,000 polygon face at 30ish FPS I think, although, what would be the point of modeling the face with such an insane number of polygons?

Yeah, sorry, I ment the total system polygon output, not per model. I stated that badly...

 

[PC-Engine]

The Getaway? Is it out? Will it ever? Again Shenmue is over 2 years old on dated hardware. Comparing it to Shenmue is laughable. It has major framerate problems and flickers like crazy. There's something really wrong when the latest and greatest can't even beat a 2 year old title on an even older piece of hardware

Regarding Shenmue, obviously different artists will choose to create different looks. Just because it doesn't align with something like FFTSW doesn't make is less artistic or less impressive. Toy Story is extremely artistic btw and anybody who thinks otherwise probably doesn't have any clue and no artistic talent to begin with. Cel-shading done right can also look very impressive. The comparsion between Shenmue and SH3 isn't about art styles anyway. It's about a 2 year old game running on dated hardware and rendering images that are nearly as good as that being rendered by the latest software on hardware 3 times as powerful

The old man demo on my DC has a background btw

Sorry but thems the facts

Look at that outdoor scene...extremely underwhelming I'd say. BTW that Shenmue girl is not supposed to be an old woman. Why not compare it to the female characters models from SH3 8) Having wrinkles does cause one to go WOW!! Also I've already explained why the SH3 cutscene isn't anything more than the Shenmue demo during closeup shots as it's not rendering anything outside the camera view. Look at the background behind that guy with the hat. What is that? A flat texture? Where's the detailed background environments? Looks like the most impressive SH3 character shot doesn't contain any 3D data for the backgrounds. Why is that?

 

[Guest]

Ok so after examining these pics, is it really unreasonable for any person to be unimpressed by the cutscene in SH3?

Maybe if we are comparing Shenmue cutscenes with SH3 cutscenes...

. It has major framerate problems and flickers like crazy.

Yup, thats part of Shenmue technical problems.

Comparing these 2 shots, i dont see what is so underwhelming with SH3..

Face it, the SH3 old dude cutscene is more WOW than Shenmue head demo. Not only it is rendering more stuffs, it has better lighting, textures and details. 8)
Dated hardware, diminishing returns. I would love to see DC do a game like ZOE2 though.

DC is a great hardware for its time, so is PS2, GC and Xbox. But DC fanboys are making it as though its the messiah of 3D rendering. And thats irritating to hell. I guessed if DC had not died a 'honorable death', people wont be making so much a fuss about the hardware.

 

[PC-Engine]

It seems like people are ignoring facts left and right. Here compare this with the Shenmue FEMALE. It's a more accurate comparison.

BTW go to the local mall sometime and look for a really old man. Take a picture of him. Now go find a 20 yr old female with fine skin and take a picture of her. Now compare the two. I'm talking real people not CG. I gurantee 99% of the people who compares the two photographs will be more moved by the old man. Consider it a lesson in art/photography. I think I've made my point quite well 8)

Should I also give a lesson in cinematography?

 

[Guest]

It seems like people are ignoring facts left and right

So what are the facts? That the DC hardware is over rated beyond its actual worth? Make no mistake, it is a great piece of Sega kit, and thats it.
Nothing more nothing less.

Vince posted a link to Shenmue old man demo, now compare that with SH3 dude if you will.

Here is the link for the lazy. Insider account needed if you exceeded IGN daily free visit pass. 5 times i think.

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMedia...p://dreamcast.ign.com/objects/014/014499.html

 

[PC-Engine]

Like I've said many times already. The SH3 cutscenes DO NOT impress me. I'm not the average Joe that doesn't have a clue as to what can be done and what can't. Shenmue impressed me over 2 years ago and it still does today considering the hardware it's running on. One doesn't have to have a f*nboy mentality to grasp that concept.

 

[Guest]

Oh well, thats that then.

 

[PC-Engine]

Don't get me wrong. The SH3 old man does look better than the Shenmue demos, but it's not THAT much better when all things are taken into consideration.

 

[zurich]

The old Shenmue dude looks very very very 'texturey'. IE: next to no lighting, very low poly count. Its as if a face texture was wrapped around a sphere, cause those wrinkes look more like scars

SH3 guy/chick has lighting and a much higher poly look to her face. Stills are one thing, but KH & FF X proved that it takes a fully animated face to be believable. Thats to say that you can pretty much fake any given look with a well drawn texture, but without the other goodies (polys, lighting, perpixel, etc) it looses its quality in motion.

I'm sure Shenmue was great in 1999, but its time has obviously past. It shows that its 2 years old and 1/3rd the 'power' of the PS2. Hell, all the online press have said in chorus that Xbox Shenmue 2, despite the smooth framerate, AF, AA, mipmapping, etc., is very visually underwhelming.

PC-Engine, I suggest if you're so high on art that you check out Kingdom Hearts. Completely different style, but it seriously earns all the praise its gotten.

zurich

 

[PC-Engine]

Shenmu 2 for Xbox is a port and it doesn't offer anything new over the DC version artwise that's why everyone is underwhelmed by it especially considering the hardware it's running on. As a matter of fact it's a bad port from the screens I've seen so far.

I'll check out KH btw

 

[aneep]

ahum ppl are not talking about ZOE2 anymore?

-aneep-

 

[Guest]

Since we are talking about Unlimited Saga too. i Like to say that the 2 Saga games i played on PS1 are tad underwhelming.
Very very pretty artwork, but fragmentated gameplay and story.

 

[mech]

I love it that people still think the DC is more powerful than the PS2.