ZOE2 tgs trailer
- Thread starter Tiberius
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Comparisions...
DC and PS2 are pretty comparable in performance...
the big difference for me is that the Shenmue head demo is a completely seperate piece of code to the game, and as such will be tuned to really maximise the use of the hardware ( I seen to recall that the appearence of these tech demos followed the square 'old man' head demo at the march 1999 PS2 unveiling )
The SH3 real time demo, is part of the game engine, so will not be as tuned to one individual scene...
Also, self shadowing is quite complex, although simple fixed volume shadows are more fill rate than anything else.....
DC and PS2 are pretty comparable in performance...
the big difference for me is that the Shenmue head demo is a completely seperate piece of code to the game, and as such will be tuned to really maximise the use of the hardware ( I seen to recall that the appearence of these tech demos followed the square 'old man' head demo at the march 1999 PS2 unveiling )
The SH3 real time demo, is part of the game engine, so will not be as tuned to one individual scene...
Also, self shadowing is quite complex, although simple fixed volume shadows are more fill rate than anything else.....
Very true, but the cutscenes in Shenmue excluding the intro cutscene was tuned to allow for multiple character models to be in the the same scene. Some scenes have as many as 8 character models all displayed at the same time therefore it makes sense to target the a character model for a worse case scenario. Worse case scenario for SH3 is 2 characters. It's really not as cut and dry as most people think.
The only cutscene that probably came the closest to maximising the DC is the intro cutscene which uses the exact 3d model as the head demos. Again this was in 1999 8)
The only cutscene that probably came the closest to maximising the DC is the intro cutscene which uses the exact 3d model as the head demos. Again this was in 1999 8)
It's fairly obvious we're not going to convince you otherwise.
But to me Zoe 2 and SH3 look amazing. They're great examples of the strides PS2 has made in improving its image quality, and I'd say are really stressing the system. There is no way Dreamcast could produce these graphics. The system was an excellent, well balanced console, but let's face it - it was running a 100Mhz graphics processor and a 200Mhz SH4, hardly graphical powerhouses.
I think people tend to overstate Dreamcast's graphics somewhat. Soul Calibur is still a fantastic looking game, but stack it up to TTT or Tekken 4 and it's obviously been bettered. Shenmue was a significant achievement for its time - as are these games. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, when even many Xbox or PC games don't look as good as Zoe2 or SH3.
But to me Zoe 2 and SH3 look amazing. They're great examples of the strides PS2 has made in improving its image quality, and I'd say are really stressing the system. There is no way Dreamcast could produce these graphics. The system was an excellent, well balanced console, but let's face it - it was running a 100Mhz graphics processor and a 200Mhz SH4, hardly graphical powerhouses.
I think people tend to overstate Dreamcast's graphics somewhat. Soul Calibur is still a fantastic looking game, but stack it up to TTT or Tekken 4 and it's obviously been bettered. Shenmue was a significant achievement for its time - as are these games. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, when even many Xbox or PC games don't look as good as Zoe2 or SH3.
Face vs intro...
The intro model, while extremely good, isn't the same as the head demo model - there are slight differences ( even looking at the data )
I love the shenmue intro - but it really annoyed me that her hear animatied completely through her face as the camera swooped in - It looked like a Z buffer glitch..
SH3 seems to be using lessons learned from MGS2 - the cut scenes appear to be rendered as letterbox, to allow for 2 or 3x vertical supersampling ( Similar to the Rogue squadron cut scenes, as the gamecube can only realistically generate FSAA with reduced vertical size due to the framebuffer configuration )
It would be quite cool to see how Shenmue would come out on the PS2, now that AM2 have cut their teeth on the architecture with the VF4 port..
( I might see if I can grab the model geometry and texture data - It would make a great Linux demo.. )
The intro model, while extremely good, isn't the same as the head demo model - there are slight differences ( even looking at the data )
I love the shenmue intro - but it really annoyed me that her hear animatied completely through her face as the camera swooped in - It looked like a Z buffer glitch..
SH3 seems to be using lessons learned from MGS2 - the cut scenes appear to be rendered as letterbox, to allow for 2 or 3x vertical supersampling ( Similar to the Rogue squadron cut scenes, as the gamecube can only realistically generate FSAA with reduced vertical size due to the framebuffer configuration )
It would be quite cool to see how Shenmue would come out on the PS2, now that AM2 have cut their teeth on the architecture with the VF4 port..
( I might see if I can grab the model geometry and texture data - It would make a great Linux demo.. )
AbbA said:PC-Engine said:
Ok, but the result will be the same!
Well if you can find pics of the head demos from Gamespot that are as good as the ones I took with my camera then they would look the same, otherwise...
CrazyAce, it is the exact head model of the *other* girl. I can tell because the screen freezes at the end of the scene and you can cleary see the same details. BTW just out of curiosity, how can you get access to the model data? Are you a programmer at AM2? Do you have a DC devkit? Seriously
Keep in mind that the colors and style of the Shenmue models was a choice by the developer. Like Laa Yosh has said, it doesn't look realistic because it isn't aiming for the same style as SH3. However, the texture resolution and polygon complexity is comparable to SH3.
Also of note are the NPC models. Those models will not look as good as the main character models as there are over 50 of them. AM2 isn't going to spend the same amount of time on those models as the main character models for obvious reasons. Keep that in mind when looking at pics with multiple NPCs on screen.
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IIRC, the Shenhua intro doesnt look the same as the head demo, even when the cam zooms up on her face.
marconelly!
Veteran
This trailer alone has scenes with at least 3 or 4 characters (main character and the enemies) all with the crazy shadowing and other effects going on.
It's just funny how much Abba's pictures put things into perspective...
The art excuse just doesn't work, IMO because everything in the actual Shenmue cut scenes is so obviously weaker. It's not only model complexity and textures, but the overal look that is so lacking. Lighting is completely flat, shadows so simple... There's no feeling of depth and volume.
Oh, and those 'worst' Shenmue captures are provided by AM2 themseves, (look the signature) and are also scaled down framebuffer shots that have none of the bad aliasing the actual game has.
I wouldn't call walking blobs high poly
What's funny is comparing piss poor low res grabs with 1506x1147 DTL fb grabs running at who knows what framerate
Actually his Shenmue shots show how modeling NPCs was a low priority at AM2. Why spend the same amount of time modeling each NPC (over 50 unique characters) as the main characters when the player only sees them for a brief moment throughout the entire game?
Laa-Yosh KNOWS what he's talking about and he also knows what I'm talking about too. Also I trust his judgement because I myself am also an artist. It takes a special eye to see beyond the surface. The sad fact is, some people have it, some people don't..there's really no need to explaing further
SEGA's PR department has never used high res 1506x1147 devkit fb grabs running at 5 fps for any of their games and try to pass them off as something you see on your tv screen at home
It must be my special DC with magical powers that allowed me to get those awesome Shenmue shots though
Anyway let's see if you can find out which shot(s) are from the demo and which shot(s) are from the cutscene IF ANY since nobody will believe me when I say the that the cutscene uses the exact same 3d model as the head demos
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