Xenon Project

[randycat99]

No wonder i see lots of Xbox hate around... you guys are biasing against the wrong thing!

The hipocracy of this statement is astounding (inferring the true extent of your delusional disposition- that's not a flame, it's a clinical observation, plain and simple). Where do you see "Xbox hate" here??? Do you see anybody posting topic after topic about what went wrong with Xbox and why Xbox2 will fail??? What have you been doing here lately, OTOH??? Please, just SD&STFU, already. You might actually learn something here if you could just do more reading, comprehending, and pondering instead of incessant spouting. There is no "us vs. them". Hear me?! It is just "you vs. everybody", and it will stay that way as long as you put yourself in that position.

 

[notAFanB]

It's how they lied basically and how they are such hypocrites. And why they are doing it is out of pure greed.

I have re-read your post and I guess will will have to disagree on how responsable a Corporation should be wrt to practices.

 

[PC-Engine]

IIRC the only thing MS has said in the past was that the Xbox won't be a PC and and so far it's not. There's no Windows, there's not keyboard, there's no mouse, and you can't even surf the internet with it. Even the DC had a keyboard, mouse, web browser, etc.

If Xbox2 ends up having Tivo functionality then I think that's great. If it ends up with DVD recording capability like PSX then that's even better only if it doesn't increase the cost of Xbox2 significantly. If it doesn't end up with DVD recording capability then at least have USB 2.0 so I could hook it up to my PC and transfer the MPEG2 stream to my DVD burner 8)

BTW who owns DirectX? What is it used for?

 

[chaphack]

This goes against everything that fellow Seamus and the crew were saying about Xbox as a whole, and how Xbox would be a gaming console for the hardcore. You have these guys laughing at PS2 because it had a DVD player and how it wasn't a gamers console because it had all these "gimmicks".(usb port, firewire)

Taking XB1 into account, its so true. Lets see what they have to say for XB2 first..

And look how the tables have turned, all of this went to nothing basically; the true colors of MS's intentions are now clear. They don't give a damn about gamers in the end, they are ONLY HERE to stop Sony from putting Linux in millions of homes. The whole scam they pulled with the Xbox1 stuff(it being for gamers, no gimmicks,) was to attract the gaming crowd so they could get a following to help take down Sony with it's own all-in-one xbox2. Nothing more.

And whats wrong with that? MS only said XB1 will be game centric system. Did they comment about part 2/3/4? Nope. What scam? They sell consoles, Sony sell consoles. Big deal. Do you mean only Sony is allowed to do all-in-one system? PSX started as a game only console, Sony aim back then was to take out Nintendo/Sega console market share. Big deal again.

Again you missed the entire point. The only reason why MS is in the console business is to stop Sony or another company from taking over the living room with a competing OS such as Linux. It's this type of pure greed and monopolystic ideas that are really just a damn shame.

No. I think YOU missed the point. MS-Sony-Nintendo only reason in console business is to MAKE MONEY.
If either one has ability to create a monopoly, you think Sony would go "ahya noooooo, i no likie monopoly, come my rivals, take away some of my filthy market share! I feel bad having 95% of the console world and forcing high prices to my dearest end users! So PLEASE STOP ME! "

Them losing billions on Xbox supports my case. MS doesn't really care how much money they lose on the whole Xbox thing, money ISNT the point. It's to make Xbox the number one console one day so that they have their trojan horse into the living room so no other OS's can be used other than Windows. There really is no money to be made in the console business for MS, especially since it would take until Xbox3 to make up all the losses incured so far.

Money IS the point. Sony loses tons of $$$ in the early PS2 days. Dont see people going HELLYA SONY! YOU USING $$$ FORCA SEGA OUTTA!!!
There IS money to make once MS goes past the entry barriers. XB3? I say XB2 will be profitable to them ya!

But it's Sony who brings inovation into the console business more than MS, I mean take a damn look at what they are doing

Yes the great PS2. A nice innovative game(and supposedly touted as an all-in-one) console.

handheld that beats the PS2 in some cases, them spending billions on a microprocessor for PS3. They dont have to do ANY of this, they could release PS3 with Xbox specs and it would still sell millions.

Can we like, see the results before we go all so innovative SONY ARE!!! Remember the PS2?

Spending millions does NOT gaurentee success. Furthermore, having your own chips and plants make more economical sense for Sony. They dont have to do this, but they might just get ecilipse once again by rival technology. Sheessh, why do you think Sony is the only one moving forward techwise???

They were the same objectives since day one, Install xbox into as many homes as possible not worrying about any type of loss so you will build a fanbase for Xbox 2. With Xbox2 they will make it into basically a do-it-all to compete with the likes of Sony who has similar plans with PS3(hence Cell) and hopefully drive Sony out of the market and kill off playstation for good. Now with the console market under control they have a major trojan into the living room, at this point there really is no competition(who's left?) this is where the living room is basically taken over with Windows. Hence the two pronged attack from XP media center type deals and Xbox.

MS plans, Sony plans, Sony kills MS, MS kills Sony, Sony control, MS control. No difference i see. Its business imho. Live with it.



Again, it becomes clear why Xbox is not too welcome here. Is it fear or is it jealous or is it just plain fannyism? I would not know...

Me chappers only know, only support whoeverth bringz the good system.

 

[chaphack]

Where do you see "Xbox hate" here??? Do you see anybody posting topic after topic about what went wrong with Xbox and why Xbox2 will fail??? What have you been doing here lately, OTOH??? Please, just SD&STFU, already. You might actually learn something here if you could just do more reading, comprehending, and pondering instead of incessant spouting. There is no "us vs. them". Hear me?! It is just "you vs. everybody", and it will stay that way as long as you put yourself in that position.

What have i done lately?

Once again hostile randy burstup again. Me vs everybody? More like Me vs the usual suspects.

Can you like keep to disccussion instead of random personal attack on poor chappy?

 

[randycat99]

Can you like keep to disccussion instead of random personal attack on poor chappy?

By all means, we all should keep to the discussion. In doing so, I'm sure we can count on you to stop with severely retarded statements such as this:

Again, it becomes clear why Xbox is not too welcome here. Is it fear or is it jealous or is it just plain fannyism? I would not know...

Take your own advice...take your OWN advice, and you will see the world change.

 

[cthellis42]

I don't quite see things as Microsoft not wanting to deliver games on the consoles... Why on earth would they not want to deliver games? They already have gaming wrapped around their little finger on PC, so why wouldn't they want to get it on the consoles as well? (Of course I fear this, as I figure if they ever DID we would get a final convergence between the two, and I'm not a fan of THAT at all!)

What they learned this gen is: A) shticks are good, B) you can't simply deliver better performance and expect the developers to fall all over themselves to get to you and displace Sony immediately, and C) you don't get to leverage CRAP from PC-land to gain advantage with consoles. Hehe... Sony is leaning into bigger and badder with a vengeance, and they have little choice but to follow suit. Picking up all the other "stuff" a machine like that can do without impacting the cost or the functionality otherwise just makes sense, and they certainly shouldn't be BLAMED for it. (You can, however, tease their earlier cockiness. )

Offhand I can see Microsoft wanting to do two things. One is to suck even more loss on the next generation bringing out high-quality parts to keep on scale performance-wise, hopefully trying for advantage (only being able to go so far, of course, but I assume they'd ride on S/I/T having an even rougher ramp-up period with the PS3) and be able to support all those extra features, but this would seem destined to cripple their Media Center PC initiative, and would make a whole LOT of OEM's unhappy with them. OR... perhaps they streamline to as pure a gaming box as possible, toss every possible feature and toolset at developers (not to mention as easy programming as possible), and SERIOUSLY leverage their weight against the devs, bringing as many PC-specific devs across as possible while also attempting to interrupt/buy out/attract as many on the console side as well, figuring there might at least be a CHANCE to steal them out from under Sony if they're trying to shoot the moon.

I'd think the second option might actually work the best for them, as I see MS more able to leverage the "media box" concept a lot better from the PC side, and if they can cut down Sony's huge embrace by the game development community, perhaps not as many will be looking in that direction for their "all-in-one" box, trusting Microsoft's name more. (Or at least being resigned to accepting them.) Playstation still IS known basically just for games, after all (though the upcoming PSX is an attempt to attract attention to their other possibilities, of course--and we will see how successful that is), while Microsoft is "computing"--a much bigger and more generalized and more recognized state to be in.

Sadly it's still too early to tell. I assume MS will still be wanting to add features and not get too far behind on that front, but I'm not sure how far they ARE willing to push against their other initiatives. It's a matter of pride, if nothing else. But we can't yet see any real plans or motion, so... <shrugs> It's hard to know what the future involves.

 

[incurable]

Sony it seems(Kutaragi) has a vision to bring entertainment to single devices. Microsoft is hellbent on stopping them install Linux into millions of devices; and to control the living room.

Sony actualy wants good in all this, MS's intentions is to be basically stop everyone from doing anything at all. Although the whole reason for ANY of this is money, however with MS money is not a problem, they just want pure control.

Hmmm. Both companies want the same thing, control over your 'home entertainment', control over the content delivery platforms and ways and ultimately (and simply) your money, I don't see a difference there.

cu

incurable

PS: People with visions should go to see a doctor about it.

 

[cybamerc]

PC-Engine:

> IIRC the only thing MS has said in the past was that
> the Xbox won't be a PC and and so far it's not.

It doesn't have all the functionality that we normally associate with PCs but back before the Xbox had been launched various M$' reps put a lot of effort into convincing everyone stupid enough to listen that the Xbox isn't anything like a PC and never will be. In doing so they blatantly lied to the public, the press and even the development community. Of course as they got closer to launch they started to make vague hints that perhaps they had something else in mind and shortly after launch (or perhaps slightly before, the exact time escapes me ATM) Bill Gates himself flat out stated that Xbox wasn't just intended for games.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/081/081303p1.html

J Allard: "You turn it on, and it blows your mind. We're not confused. It doesn't boot, there is no install, there are no patches, it's not an opportunity to port PC games, there's not a keyboard jack, there's not a mouse jack."

> there's not keyboard, there's no mouse

There's an adapter however.

> and you can't even surf the internet with it

If they don't put a browser on it this gen, they will the next.

> If Xbox2 ends up having Tivo functionality

Why would it be TiVo? They have UltimateTV.

 

[_phil_]

MS plans, Sony plans, Sony kills MS, MS kills Sony, Sony control, MS control. No difference i see. Its business imho. Live with it.

I rather see Sony aiming at semiconductors supremacy ,and MS aiming at being the software-side gatekeeper of the world broadband .
And apparently it's client/server vs P2P philosophy.

 

[chaphack]

There's an adapter however.

If i am not wrong, that is because Sega wanted it. And is that a bad thing?

If they don't put a browser on it this gen, they will the next.

Again, is that a bad thing?

The thing about XB1 !=>< PC is that it is a true plug and play console, just like any console. That is what MS is trying to disassociate XB vs the complexity of PC. As long as it offers the functionality of a PC, but with the ease and stability of a console, wheres the problem???

 

[cybamerc]

chaphack:

> If i am not wrong, that is because Sega wanted it. And is that a bad thing?

The point is that it's there despite M$ early promises that you would never have a keyboard or mouse for the Xbox. Granted, it's only an adapter but it was released with the specific intent to allow the use of a keyboard.

> Again, is that a bad thing?

A bad thing? Looked upon isolated I wouldn't say it's bad per se, unecessary definitely but not really bad. However a browser is just one step along the way. Just like patches was a step before it and installable software with PC connectivity another. I don't like the direction they're moving in and I like their dishonesty about it even less.

 

[chaphack]

There are promises and there are promises. Sometimes there is only so much a profit oriented company like MS can do.

Your faved Japanese developer wants an adaptor, a harmless one, from you, looking at the situation in the far east, can MS displeased them? I wont call them dishonest, really. I mean adding a KB + Mouse do not have much negative effect, if any.

Browsing the Internet from a console, is pretty cool imho. heck, the coolness of a PC is highly due to the Internet. Again no harm done. I say, as long as MS keep XBes plug-and-play, hassale-free consoles, there is nothing hardy baddy imho. I wont be surprised to see Longhorn XLite as XB2 OS.

Any needless PC-like complexity is not for us to worry about, but for MS. Its their own share to FUBAR~!!! If it sucks, there is no reason for us to waste our $$$ on it.

For now we just need to enjoy what goodness they have presented to us.

 

[rabidrabbit]

When is a console a PC?
-Is it a PC if you can run Windows software directly on it?
-Is it a PC if you can do some of the things you normally do with your PC, like web browsing, e-mail, media manipulation?
-Is it a PC if you can connect a keyboard and mouse on it? They are just controlling peripherals after all.
-Is it a PC if it uses slightly modified PC technology, components and API?

In my opinion such a thing as pure PC is dissapearing. Personal computers are nowadays more multimedia machines than just personal data processing machines.
Perhaps the line sholud be drawn in the user interface. A complex ui like Windows is not suitable for home entertainment center. But if a simpler ui is built upon exsisting Windows core, I see no problem with that.

When MS introduced XB into the console scene, I always thought of it as a stripped down PC, that could not run PC software, even though it basically has all the components to do so.

MS marketed the xbox as pure gaming machine, without unnecessary extra functions. like DVD playback, that the consumer would not need to pay the extra for such functionality they do not need.

I don't know, but would adding DVD playback as standard have added to the cost of the machine? I am not familiar with the licensing costs and such. If a game uses dvd video in FMV, is there no licensing fees then?

Another thing that pissed me off regarding MS and XB is the much touted internet gaming readiness out of the box. In reality it isn't eny more net ready than PS2 or GCN.

For XB you must purchase the software 'Live starter pack' before you can
play online.
For PS2 and GCN you must buy cheap hardware adapter before going online.

None of the consoles were any more online ready than another. It doesn't matter if you must buy separate software or separate hardware.
MS just paid a little more in manufacturning the xbox with ethernet connection, which it is now collecting back in form of 'Live start kit'.
Sony and Nintendo didn't include this cost in launch hardware, and are now collecting the money with add on hardware sales.

I do not welcome MS technology as my living room entertainment center standard.
Maybe the only reason is just because I rather see some new, possibly more innovative and thus more exciting technology, than what I have become accustomed at work.

In my case it is purely a personal preference, an appetite for new tecnology. Not fear for a said company 'taking over the world'.
I purchase electronics for pleasure, and I'm not ashamed to admit the image a product has is a big contributor in delivering that satisfaction I get when I purchase new gadgets.
It's as simple as that.

Edit: Ok, i'm off topic, and there is really no point in my post

 

[Paul]

Again chap you COMPLETELY miss the boat.

Taking XB1 into account, its so true. Lets see what they have to say for XB2 first..

Yup, goes to prove that what they said meant jack-shit and they really don't care about gamers at all. Lies in the end, all that Xbox to be a hardcore gaming device ONLY will be gone.

And whats wrong with that? MS only said XB1 will be game centric system. Did they comment about part 2/3/4? Nope. What scam? They sell consoles, Sony sell consoles. Big deal. Do you mean only Sony is allowed to do all-in-one system? PSX started as a game only console, Sony aim back then was to take out Nintendo/Sega console market share. Big deal again.

So everything they touted Xbox(AS A WHOLE) to be will be thrown out the window? Am I the only one who see's anything wrong with that? Sony never said PSONE would just be a gaming device and nothing more, and they never made fun of another console's usb ports now did they.

No. I think YOU missed the point. MS-Sony-Nintendo only reason in console business is to MAKE MONEY.
If either one has ability to create a monopoly, you think Sony would go "ahya noooooo, i no likie monopoly, come my rivals, take away some of my filthy market share! I feel bad having 95% of the console world and forcing high prices to my dearest end users! So PLEASE STOP ME!

Nope, money means nothing to microsoft in the console business. Because there is little to no money to be made that they would even care about.

It's all about CONTROL, money means nothing as seen how many billions have been lost on Xbox. They are in this to stop Sony from installing linux into millions of homes first and foremost, than to take over the living room so NO OTHER COMPETING OS'S other than their own can be in there.

Money IS the point. Sony loses tons of $$$ in the early PS2 days. Dont see people going HELLYA SONY! YOU USING $$$ FORCA SEGA OUTTA!!!
There IS money to make once MS goes past the entry barriers. XB3? I say XB2 will be profitable to them ya!

Again why are you comparing Sony and MS? Sony's goal IS TO MAKE MONEY, MS's is NOT. Furthermore, Xbox will NEVER make money for microsoft. Because that isn't the point, it's control. Sony loses money per console sold than makes it back because they own their own chips.

Xbox2 won't be profitable, they are doing the same thing as last gen, take all the best PC components and put them into a box. They will take a loss, and it won't come back. Especially since it's going to have tivo functions and the whole bit.

Yes the great PS2. A nice innovative game(and supposedly touted as an all-in-one) console.

Again you have nothing on me so you bring up PS2, ps2 was cutting edge on paper they didn't have to make it as powerfull as it was, and they DIDNT have to take a loss. Playstation name alone would secure them cash.

Spending millions does NOT gaurentee success. Furthermore, having your own chips and plants make more economical sense for Sony. They dont have to do this, but they might just get ecilipse once again by rival technology. Sheessh, why do you think Sony is the only one moving forward techwise???

You miss the boat once again. Sony does not have to make psp or ps3 as powerfull as they are going to be, but they do. They will sell regardless. You have Sony spending years researching and building chips for their consoles, but you have MS at the last minute take a bunch of PC stuff and throw it into a box.. hmmm....

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Yup, goes to prove that what they said meant jack-shit and they really don't care about gamers at all.

You know Paul,

More people might attempt to have civilized conversation with you if you wouldn't make statemets like the above that show how unreasonably biased you are.

MS, and Nintendo, and Sony all give a crap about gamers to the same extent...that to which they can make money off of them. This means striking some balance between product margins and market share (volume.)

It's really that simple.

 

[Squeak]

Not saying that I hate Xbox, I love it and I love the games. However, I do not like the motives behind it.

If you genuinely don’t like the motives of the company behind the xbox, then why support them by buying it?

 

[Paul]

More people might attempt to have civilized conversation with you if you wouldn't make statemets like the above that show how unreasonably biased you are.

I am not biased against Xbox(I own one if you read) I am biased against Microsoft.

Noone was being unreasonable, I was proving a point. They make all these claims about how Xbox is a gamers only device, no usb ports, no firewire. Than hmm look what they are doing with Xbox2...

What they are doing is hypocritical.

If you genuinely don’t like the motives of the company behind the xbox, then why support them by buying it?

I play the games and I support Sega, and buying an Xbox isn't even supporting MS; they lose cash per each sold.

 

[notAFanB]

If you genuinely don’t like the motives of the company behind the xbox, then why support them by buying it?

I play the games, and buying an Xbox isn't even supporting MS; they lose cash per each sold.

Paul unless those games aren't legit the money still goes into MS pocket. your 'supporting' them by becoming a consumer of a product(s) on which they make money.

EDIT: oh wait I suppose u could rent/loan the titles but that's going a bit far I think.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I am not biased against Xbox(I own one if you read) I am biased against Microsoft.

Right, and unreasonably so.

Noone was being unreasonable, I was proving a point. They make all these claims about how Xbox is a gamers only device, no usb ports, no firewire. Than hmm look what they are doing with Xbox2...

What are they doing with Xbox2 BTW? I haven't heard anything, have you?

What they are doing is hypocritical.

Wrong. What they are doing, whatever it is, is what they think they need to do to make money. Same as Sony.

Now that MS has established that it can create a pure gaming console, we'll see what steps they make next.

And as for being hypocritical...I surely hope that Sony isn't planning on a hard drive or broadband network capability with PS3...after all, I believe they "poo-poohed" such things at the X-Box launch....we wouldn't want Sony to be hypocritical now, would we?

I play the games and I support Sega, and buying an Xbox isn't even supporting MS; they lose cash per each sold.

Oh, I see...you buy those games from the special "MS doesn't get a royalty this game" bin at Wal-Mart?