Xbox Series X [XBSX] [Release November 10 2020]

[Scott_Arm]

Going by the explanation given by Mr Beard Guy, the main difference between patch optimized and built for xsx optimized is that patch is for already released game, built for will be for games after/at the release of the console (there by not needing a patch).
It just means it was compiled on the xsx dev kit.

So it doesn't have to mean anything you've said at all.
Your pretty much talking two different builds of the game. Not gonna happen this cross gen, for either console.
Be a huge waste of development time and money, better spent on assets or bigger levels etc

So if they mean "native" as in not backwards compatibility mode, the renderer and the engine subsystems will still be different on the Series X because it has different hardware with different capabilities. It will be two different code paths and effectively work as I stated.

 

[iroboto]

Full article on their badging for XSX. lol, didn't think it would get this complex, but hey, it's MS.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06...ames-optimized/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
This is very lengthy above btw.

Next Generation Framerates Offer the Pinnacle of Precision

Games that have been Optimized for Xbox Series X use the power of the new console to deliver higher, steadier frame rates, with a performance target of 60 FPS at 4K resolution. Some games will even be able to support frame rates up to 120 FPS or variable refresh rates, allowing developers to offer players heightened realism and more precise controls for fast-paced action.

So it sounds like, at the very least, you see that badge, expect ~4K @ 60fps.

.... now lets hope MS doesn't show anything below 60fps in July. That's just going to confuse everyone.

 

[Jay]

So if they mean "native" as in not backwards compatibility mode, the renderer and the engine subsystems will still be different on the Series X because it has different hardware with different capabilities. It will be two different code paths and effectively work as I stated.

So a game that is patched (gears 5) to use features (code paths) that aren't available on XO in that case is also native then.

So it sounds like, at the very least, you see that badge, expect ~4K @ 60fps.

Not read it yet but I bet its more of an example of what you may get.
As they won't dictate what a dev has to do. Which is the correct thing to do, but as this is like the mid gen, but also not as can have exclusives, I fully expect them to struggle with explaining it.
As you say it is MS.

 

[iroboto]

So a game that is patched (gears 5) to use features (code paths) that aren't available on XO in that case is also native then.

Not read it yet but I bet its more of an example of what you may get.
As they won't dictate what a dev has to do. Which is the correct thing to do, but as this is like the mid gen, but also not as can have exclusives, I fully expect them to struggle with explaining it.
As you say it is MS.

yea I can't really expect them to be running 4k60 with ray tracing on, that just seems really intense for that to apply to every title.

 

[Scott_Arm]

So a game that is patched (gears 5) to use features (code paths) that aren't available on XO in that case is also native then.
....

That's how I'd interpret it.

 

[Jay]

That's how I'd interpret it.

Yea BC mode, just means it's not been patched at all.
But everything else even if it's not using any of the features is native.
It could just output the letter A and still be native.

It's just that the word native makes it sound more than it actually may be.

 

[iroboto]

Yea BC mode, just means it's not been patched at all.
But everything else even if it's not using any of the features is native.
It could just output the letter A and still be native.

It's just that the word native makes it sound more than it actually may be.

if you made an app for iPhone, and made the same app for Android, and tailored it for Android.
Those are the same apps, both are native.
If you then had a black berry and ran the android version through some weird side loader, that's not native, because I didn't compile a binary specifically for Blackberry and it's buttons. So perhaps there's functionality there that isn't optimized for that handset.

Its in this way here I suspect.

 

[Jay]

So perhaps there's functionality there that isn't optimized for that handset.

Or pahaps theres no unused functionality at all.

The thing is that in your example XO is also binary compatible.

But being native doesn't mean a huge amount of work went into it or anything. That doesn't mean it hasn't either, same with a patch.

He (Mr Beard Guy) said native just didn't need a patch but also made it sound like it was a lot more than it actually is.

 

[BRiT]

At the least, being recompiled for "native" would mean linked against the newest SDK and all the DX / XBoxOS libraries and runtimes, so more direct optimizations would be used instead of indirect benefits through the VM layers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Full article on their badging for XSX. lol, didn't think it would get this complex, but hey, it's MS. https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06...ames-optimized/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Cyberpunk 2077 is listed among the 'Optimised' game lists but it's not indicated that the fully optimized next gen version isn't coming until 2021 - and it's a CDPR release date so maybe not next year! We know Cyberpunk 2077 will be getting an initial nextgen day 1 patch but the this won't be the final patch and a "beefier" version of the game will be released "some time down the line"

The developer further clarified that this would not be the final update to buff the next-gen version of Cyberpunk 2077. A beefier version of the game optimised for Microsoft and Sony's new machines will follow down the line - perhaps some time down the line - but again be available to PS4 and Xbox One owners free of charge.

So which nextgen version of the game get's the 'Optimized' branding? The 2021+ version that CDPR says is actually optimized for nextgen, or the we-did-over-a-weekend patch for nextgen launch day 1 this year?

 

[Jay]

So which nextgen version of the game get's the 'Optimized' branding? The 2021+ version that CDPR says is actually optimized for nextgen, or the we-did-over-a-weekend patch for nextgen launch day 1 this year?

Both, optimized for xsx does not relate to amount of work or changes made.
Could literally be a recompile.
Although if someone is going through the bother of recompiling you would expect that they would at least raise the resolution etc

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Both, optimized for xsx does not relate to amount of work or changes made.
Could literally be a recompile.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm sure both Microsoft and Sony's SDKs have a host of compile profiles that enable a bunch of 'free' enhancements for game builds originally targeted at current generation hardware but equally it would be nice to know if the developer's level of effort was CDPR Day 1 nextgen patch 'optimized' or 2021 CDPR truly-nextgen optimized. Because if the former outnumber the latter, it'll devalue the brand.

Without adding to the complexity, I think 'Enhanced' (we re-compiled it, some resolution/frame-rate improvement and faster I/O) and 'Optimized' (we made significant changes to optimise this code for your new hardware) would give people a clearer idea of what to expect.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Why would anyone bother recompiling the game without making any changes to the underlying game? If they're leaving the game exactly the same they'd just let backwards compatibility handle it.

 

[function]

Why would anyone bother recompiling the game without making any changes to the underlying game? If they're leaving the game exactly the same they'd just let backwards compatibility handle it.

A recompile might allow you to access, say, a higher performance profile on the hardware so you can natively go from 30 to 60 or 120 fps, or natively run with higher higher variable resolution rates (similar to the X1X improvements in BC mode compared to X1X native).

You might also be able to toggle settings that the engine already supports, and that are already present on the PC version (for example ray traced shadows and reflections). So the underlying engine and the available options for the game haven't changed, but recompiling for the newer target allows certain features to be toggled and sliders to be moved.

For the exact same project in your editor, and the same code, different build settings can lead to very different results!

 

[BRiT]

It could also change the CPU configuration. I think the default Series X is SMT Disabled at 3.8 GHz. They could opt for SMT Enabled at 3.6 GHz if their job/tasking system can adjust dynamically and sees better results. All depends on how their engine handles various resources.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It might also fit better with the OS level features. If you're using OS-level APIs, these could have better implementations for, say, improving audio. It can also include things like better texture modes when you rebuild the assets. And it may well just run better than a compatibility mode.

 

[mpg1]

I'm don't think the bar should be set at just recompiling it.

I'm not sure if this scenario is possible/would happen but would an Xbox One X game running in a BC boosted mode on XSX run better than a game that was just technically recompiled for XSX without any work done to improve it? Because in that case you could get theroretically get worse performance but with the "optimized" badge.

 

[Jay]

I'm don't think the bar should be set at just recompiling it.

I'm not sure if this scenario is possible/would happen but would an Xbox One X game running in a BC boosted mode on XSX run better than a game that was just technically recompiled for XSX without any work done to improve it? Because in that case you could get theroretically get worse performance but with the "optimized" badge.

So what would you like MS to check box against?
Then they would need to validate it also.

So if a game is already 4k60 how would you verify if the updates/lack of justifies the badge or not?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm don't think the bar should be set at just recompiling it.

This is my thinking. Despite the fact that recompiling with new performance options could well result in considerable improvements over the current generation console experience, inevitably there will be a vast spectrum of effort and real world improvements. E.g. I'd be surprised if CDPR were not contemplating supporting RT in the nextgen versions.

This will in itself result in a spectrum of expectations and I'm just thinking of a good way to manage this.

 

[dobwal]

So what would you like MS to check box against?
Then they would need to validate it also.

So if a game is already 4k60 how would you verify if the updates/lack of justifies the badge or not?

Load speeds.