Xbox Series X [XBSX] [Release November 10 2020]

pjbliverpool said:
What makes you think that's not a standard feature of RDNA2?
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It should show up in DX12 then.
Let me expand, the customization for XBO is executeIndirect with state changes. The only other hardware vendor (I know of)that can process this type of command is Nvidia, and it's exposed through the CUDA side of things. Or through extensions, IIRC.

If RDNA 2.0 supported this feature native, then we should have/expect this feature rolled out to DX12 main. That way all games will shift towards this, developers have been asking for it. Developers have been wanting to move to executeIndirect but wouldn't because of DX11. But with DX12U being the baseline they can now. But with state changes would be better for them as I understand it, makes it much more flexible and usable in more scenarios.
 
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I'm curious on people's thoughts on this.
When the 1X released MS left it up to third parties to patch games.

Considering that there aren't hundreds of DXR games already out, what is MS went to them and asked if they plan to patch it for next gen or not.
I suspect if the answer is yes both the ps5 and xsx will get a patch, if answer is no then neither console will, as i doubt they will support only one console.

If the answer is no, i think MS should fund the 1-2 weeks of dev effort to port the DXR path to xsx.
Sure may be older games but then xsx is getting some exclusive game features for very cheap, highlighting RT, games that could be there for launch, show reals.
For the relatively small outlay I think would have some very big benefits.


Now that I've been thinking about it I think they should patch every first party XO game.
Even if it just ups the resolution to 4k, if the game is already 4k then 6k. If theres a pc port up quality settings to pc ultra etc.
Just so they can say every first party XO game has a xsx patch for free.
99% of those patches would be couple days work.
How many MS first party XO games did they make, don't think it was that many?
 
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Can’t just patch in DXR like it’s a resolution upgrade. Games that have DXR already; control, BFV, tomb raider, are all great candidates for a new ray tracing patch for XSX. And that library will continue to grow throughout the year.

But asking devs to go back to RT patch their titles can be a fairly large investment. There is a lot you can do and it will tank performance quickly.

Some may. Others won’t.
 
iroboto said:
Can’t just patch in DXR like it’s a resolution upgrade. Games that have DXR already; control, BFV, tomb raider, are all great candidates for a new ray tracing patch for XSX. And that library will continue to grow throughout the year.

But asking devs to go back to RT patch their titles can be a fairly large investment. There is a lot you can do and it will tank performance quickly.

Some may. Others won’t.
Click to expand...
You can pretty much just patch in DXR.
If the pc port already has DXR which is what i said, then going by Minecraft that took 1 person a week to port i believe. I don't see why any other DXR game would be much harder as there not full path tracing, I also doubled the time from 1 week to 1-2 weeks.

Also not asking devs to do it, funding it for the few DXR games that's already out that they wasn't going to patch. Instant library of a couple RT games at launch to show of xsx for pretty cheap. Want to hit the ground running.

Not sure if you assumed or read what i said, or if i wasn't clear?

Maybe it was me. I'm talking about games that currently already has DXR paths on the PC alteady.
 
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Jay said:
You can pretty much just patch in DXR.
If the pc port already has DXR which is what i said, then going by Minecraft that took 1 person a week to port i believe. I don't see why any other DXR game would be much harder as there not full path tracing, I also doubled the time from 1 week to 1-2 weeks.

Also not asking devs to do it, funding it for the few DXR games that's already out that they wasn't going to patch. Instant library of a couple RT games at launch to show of xsx for pretty cheap. Want to hit the ground running.

Not sure if you assumed or read what i said, or if i wasn't clear?

Maybe it was me. I'm talking about games that currently already has DXR paths on the PC alteady.
Click to expand...
Oh ok. For some reason I read it as titles that do not have already have RT, to patch in RT. This paragraph made me think you were talking about expanding the existing small library of DXR titles:

“Considering that there aren't hundreds of DXR games already out, what is MS went to them and asked if they plan to patch it for next gen or not.
I suspect if the answer is yes both the ps5 and xsx will get a patch, if answer is no then neither console will, as i doubt they will support only one console.”
 
iroboto said:
Oh ok. For some reason I read it as titles that do not have already have RT, to patch in RT. This paragraph made me think you were talking about expanding the existing small library of DXR titles:
Click to expand...
Sorry about that.

I meant that there isn't hundreds of PC DXR games, so the few that there are and the studio had no intent of patching them. Could look to fund a xsx patch.
So at launch have a couple DXR cross gen games.
Small investment from MS perspective as DXR path already done, but for xsx list of games would be a big benefit.

I added at the bottom about first party adding xsx patches, but not adding DXR, just resolution, settings, type updates.
 
iroboto said:
It should show up in DX12 then.
Let me expand, the customization for XBO is executeIndirect with state changes. The only other hardware vendor (I know of)that can process this type of command is Nvidia, and it's exposed through the CUDA side of things. Or through extensions, IIRC.

If RDNA 2.0 supported this feature native, then we should have/expect this feature rolled out to DX12 main. That way all games will shift towards this, developers have been asking for it. Developers have been wanting to move to executeIndirect but wouldn't because of DX11. But with DX12U being the baseline they can now. But with state changes would be better for them as I understand it, makes it much more flexible and usable in more scenarios.
Click to expand...
Just because something is new in DX12 does not mean it is new in other graphics api. GNM already supports all that on PS4.
 
Quadbitnomial said:
Just because something is new in DX12 does not mean it is new in other graphics api. GNM already supports all that on PS4.
Click to expand...
Cool. Thanks for letting us know. We couldn’t make those claims because no one has ever talked or listed those features in a public forum. Even in the many discussions around it. Mantle and Vulkan doesn’t have it etc.

but thanks for sharing.
 
Quadbitnomial said:
Nvidia dev blog is a pretty good source of information.
devblogs.nvidia.com/new-vulkan-device-generated-commands/
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This is still specific to nvidia hardware though. And I listed this functionality was avaipable through extensions. Unless something has changed; which it has gone from experimental to production, once again I don’t see this as being available for RDNA2. Just like it hasn’t been available for any AMD hardware that we publicly know of so far and it took a presentation from DICE to learn about stateless execute indirect on Xbox.

Unless you’re trying to tell me this is proxy documentation; I apologize for the misunderstanding
 
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iroboto said:
This is still specific to nvidia hardware though. And I listed this functionality was avaipable through extensions. Unless something has changed; which it has gone from experimental to production, once again I don’t see this as being available for RDNA2. Just like it hasn’t been available for any AMD hardware that we publicly know of so far and it took a presentation from DICE to learn about stateless execute indirect on Xbox.
Click to expand...
Everything you see there if not already in Vulkan will end up in Vulkan. The entire Vulkan raytracing extension is based on Nvidia's extension to Vulkan.
 
Quadbitnomial said:
Everything you see there if not already in Vulkan will end up in Vulkan. The entire Vulkan raytracing extension is based on Nvidia's extension to Vulkan.
Click to expand...
That’s not what we’re asking though. Hardware support and feature level support aren’t the same thing.

the assumption has largely been that GPU driven calls is hardware feature that begins with any device that can support Vulkan/DX12. GPU driven stateless calls requires additional hardware that only Nvidia has had. So that’s why we see extensions on Vulkan. DX12 doesn’t support stateless executeIndiredt unless something has changed recently. the only non nvidia DX12 device we know of that does though is the XBO. So the assumption is the customization of hardware to support it.
It could be a wrong assumption; but this is where My perspective is from
 
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iroboto said:
That’s not what we’re asking though. Hardware support and feature level support aren’t the same thing.

the assumption has largely been that GPU driven calls is hardware feature that begins with any device that can support Vulkan/DX12. GPU driven stateless calls requires additional hardware that only Nvidia has had. So that’s why we see extensions on Vulkan. DX12 doesn’t support stateless executeIndiredt unless something has changed recently. the only non nvidia DX12 device we know of that does though is the XBO. So the assumption is the customization of hardware to support it.
It could be a wrong assumption; but this is where My perspective is from
Click to expand...

Could it potentially be the case that the implementations are different enough that they can't be exposed via a common API and thus both have to rely on extensions?

Seems weird that Nvidia would have a key hardware feature for a couple of years now that AMD would fail to reproduce in their next gen architecture and yet add as a customisation to their console implementation.
 
pjbliverpool said:
Could it potentially be the case that the implementations are different enough that they can't be exposed via a common API and thus both have to rely on extensions?

Seems weird that Nvidia would have a key hardware feature for a couple of years now that AMD would fail to reproduce in their next gen architecture and yet add as a customisation to their console implementation.
Click to expand...
It's funny you mention that, because that's the exact same language they use. Yea you might be right here. Though, I'm unsure as to why they wouldn't just roll it in then for everyone?

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1902392/

Short answer is, I don't know ;) Might be a combination of more than 1 thing happening here.
 
Interested in nothing but Hellblade 2 gameplay. I wanna see something that's nextgen only. Would be curious to see what 3rd party exclusives they have acquired tho as rumors suggest.
 
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