How is 10GB crippling to a 1080p console while the others are 16GB for 4K? If you mean the asymmetric memory setup please explain how 2GB running on a 56GB/s channel used by the OS while the rest gets 224GB/s is a problem for games? I truly don't understand....
Xbox Series X [XBSX] [Release November 10 2020]
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
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How is 10GB crippling to a 1080p console while the others are 16GB for 4K? If you mean the asymmetric memory setup please explain how 2GB running on a 56GB/s channel used by the OS while the rest gets 224GB/s is a problem for games? I truly don't understand....
But Spider-man 2 isn't a cross gen game but is using the same engine and many of the assets and the reception to its graphics vs spiderman is lack luster. It looks like someone just adjusted sliders.
It's the same with FF16 game goes down to 720p 37fps with dynamic resolution.
The series s has an additional 2 gigs of ram more than both the ps4 and ps4 pro . The ps4 mostly targeted 1080p while the ps4 pro targeted 1440p-4k the series s is targeting 1440p and below. So anyway you cut it there is more ram than previous gen . You also then have the nvme drive on the series s. You also have other bandwidth saving technologies in the RDNA 2 that didn't exist in GCN .
Like I said the issue is developers. They are likely targeting ps5 as the main system because of the sales lead and its simple to get parity when moving to a more powerful machine like the series s. But when you have to go and then adjust the game for the less powerful machine you may find issues. You'd side step these issues by developing for the series s and then once performance is where you want it say 1440p 30fps or something you then take the additional over head that the ps5 and x provide you to reach higher resolutions with higher res textures and higher frame rates.
It's really that simple.
The issue for MS is that the price of the S is too high. They need it down closer to $200 so it hits a larger audiance and developers will naturally start to take advantage of it
That would have been great and I don't disagree, unfortunately economics certainly disagree.
If you have more memory you need a way to fill that memory. HDDs were already struggling to fill 8 GB of memory in less time than an ice age (slight exaggeration).
That means you need to move to an SSD at the very least. But an SSD is going to be more costly than an HDD.
Complicating matters is that GDDR memory isn't getting cheaper all that quickly. Hell, GDDR memory may not even be declining in price for the forseeable future.
So pick one, SSD or more memory. I think the compromise was relative good, a small bump in memory (8 GB to 16 GB) and the addition of a much faster storage solution.
I can't say for certain, but I believe that @Jay was talking about the 10GB of ram in the Series S. I think another 2 GB (so another 2GB module clamshelled) would have made a welcome difference for developers. That would have been about another $6 or so in today's money, going by leaked Dram exchange figures (so probably less for MS).
When I first heard about the series S it was going to be a 12gig 5tflop machine. I believe that would have been the ideal middle system for them. 2gigs of slower ram for the os and 10 gigs of fast ram would have been great.
It's actually a bit more than that in terms of games! 3GB more for games than the PS4, 2.5 GB more than the Pro. And those numbers seem to have increased a bit as of last year for developers who choose to disable certain OS features. Series S seems to be so close to being where it needs to be on RAM....
12GB total with 10 GB for games would have been perfect IMHO. Much closer to the window were naturally smaller buffers and reducing texture quality would have naturally landed Series X / PS5 games.
Sony did well to boost the crap out of their GPU and halve CPU SIMD. A cut back CPU might hurt games a bit late in the gen, but in the cross gen period when you're building up momentum (like Sony has done very well) there's been little to no comeback for them.
Cyberpunk: Phantom Liberty might be an interesting point to see where we've got to with regards to width+flops+BW on Series X vs ghz and faster fixed function on PS5. Cyberpunk seemed to run a little better on PS5 than XSX, but PL has ditched last gen and so may have gone harder on compute.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Sure, it's only another 6 USD (or whatever the actuality is) for a console that is already being subsidized so that it can be more affordable. 6 USD is 6 million USD if a million units sell or 60 million USD if 10 million units sell.
I'm pretty sure that the engineers had to justify the cost of every single component in the Series S in order to get it included, at some point the line has to be drawn. Considering the resolution and market segment that the Series S is going after, a lower price is likely more important than slightly easier development or ever so slightly better looking graphics.
But then again, I'm a bit biased as looking at my past year of gaming, the games I enjoyed the most (outside of Elden Ring and maybe Halo: Infinite because well done grappling hook) aren't games that anyone would consider a graphical show piece. Every year that goes by with AAA developers paying more attention to graphics than gameplay sees me moving more and more towards avoiding AAA games by default.
Ignore the following, it's mostly a personal rant.
Seriously, ignore it!!!I can't afford to spend time trudging through a graphically impressive game that isn't terribly enjoyable to play. My days of playing a game just for the graphics are long gone. If the gameplay doesn't hook me, it doesn't matter how good the game looks, I'm going to be bored out of my mind playing it.
I especially hate games that have specific "you're allowed to climb here" or "you're allowed to jump here" locations. Diablo 4 being the most recent example of this absolutely pointless mechanic. Either let me climb where I reasonably want to or just don't have it. /yawn. Boring climbing mini-cinematic or boring traversal mini-cinematic...
Whew, that went way off topic. I hope nobody read this and everyone just skipped it like I asked.
Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Anyway, the Series S wasn't ever targeted at those that have to have the best graphics. It's targeted at the consumer that can't afford "standard" current gen consoles like the PS5 or XBS-X. It's why it's always amusing to see people that it's not trying to target saying it's a bad console. Well, yes, obviously it's a bad console for that person because that person isn't meant to buy it.
I mean it's the same reason a 3060 exists despite there being a 3090, 3080 or 3070. It's offering a product for people that can't afford the better products and the expectation is that games running on it aren't going to look as good because it has less memory, less compute, less of everything. But it has the same feature levels so that ensuring a game that targets a 3080 or even 3090 will have no problems running on it because you just have to scale things down. Likewise a person with a 3060 is probably going to have a weaker CPU and less memory than someone with say a 3090 or 3080.
Exact same principle for the Series S. It has all the same feature levels as the Series X, just less of everything. So scale things down. A developer is going to have to do it for a PC version anyway, so, uh, what's the problem?
Regards,
SB
Oh I don't blame the engineers for anything, I think they did and excellent job!
Beyond a point it goes from things just looking a bit nicer to the fundamentals of how things work - what chunks you can stream in and when, which areas in the distance you can load in and begin to calculate NPCs and physics or whatever in. These things aren't always do-able at a super fine level of granularity. Because of engines, design pressure, legacy issues etc.
Baldur's Gate 3 split screen would seem to be a good example. It allows players to be in completely different areas meaning you can't rely on almost completely shared assets and simulation to hold your hand. Memory has turned out to be a real problem for them. There's only so far back you can scale res to free up memory, only so far your lods can go before you've either stopped preparing them or they are unplayably bad.
You're entirely correct that you do have to draw a line somewhere. I happen to think that MS probably drew it 2GB early.
But then again, I'm a bit biased as looking at my past year of gaming, the games I enjoyed the most (outside of Elden Ring and maybe Halo: Infinite because well done grappling hook) aren't games that anyone would consider a graphical show piece. Every year that goes by with AAA developers paying more attention to graphics than gameplay sees me moving more and more towards avoiding AAA games by default.
Ignore the following, it's mostly a personal rant.
I can't afford to spend time trudging through a graphically impressive game that isn't terribly enjoyable to play. My days of playing a game just for the graphics are long gone. If the gameplay doesn't hook me, it doesn't matter how good the game looks, I'm going to be bored out of my mind playing it.
I especially hate games that have specific "you're allowed to climb here" or "you're allowed to jump here" locations. Diablo 4 being the most recent example of this absolutely pointless mechanic. Either let me climb where I reasonably want to or just don't have it. /yawn. Boring climbing mini-cinematic or boring traversal mini-cinematic...
Whew, that went way off topic. I hope nobody read this and everyone just skipped it like I asked.
Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Yeah I'm with you there man. I've gone back to playing FTL this year as a way to relieve nervous stress. I'm pretty sure my old Pentium 2 could have run it, if it were supported.
Anyway, the Series S wasn't ever targeted at those that have to have the best graphics. It's targeted at the consumer that can't afford "standard" current gen consoles like the PS5 or XBS-X. It's why it's always amusing to see people that it's not trying to target saying it's a bad console. Well, yes, obviously it's a bad console for that person because that person isn't meant to buy it.
I mean it's the same reason a 3060 exists despite there being a 3090, 3080 or 3070. It's offering a product for people that can't afford the better products and the expectation is that games running on it aren't going to look as good because it has less memory, less compute, less of everything. But it has the same feature levels so that ensuring a game that targets a 3080 or even 3090 will have no problems running on it because you just have to scale things down. Likewise a person with a 3060 is probably going to have a weaker CPU and less memory than someone with say a 3090 or 3080.
Exact same principle for the Series S. It has all the same feature levels as the Series X, just less of everything. So scale things down. A developer is going to have to do it for a PC version anyway, so, uh, what's the problem?
Regards,
SB
3060 might not have been the best example, as it has more RAM than the 3070 or standard 10GB 3080!
Silent_Buddha
Legend
3060 might not have been the best example, as it has more RAM than the 3070 or standard 10GB 3080!
Well, one variant does.
Regards,
SB
Well, one variant does.
Regards,
SB
Touché!
cheapchips
Veteran
I didn't skip.
D4's button to climb mechanic is to add a mild bit of 3d maze traversal. Freeform traversal would break/change a fair amount of their combat loop. What bugs me most is that the horse traversing jump points is inconsistent.
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maybe it was originally designed to hide some background loadings (maybe more for network loading rather than for local loading?), but then it evolved into gameplay gimmick too.
Hence why I said would be nice.
I fully understand and appreciate the choices they made.
At no point did I say it was the wrong choice either.
I do think some devs have taken the easy way out SF6.
One or two didn't give it any consideration until optimization time (which is too late) Baldur's Gate.
MS has enough 1P studios to show what XS consoles are capable of. Up to now they've not taken some clear opportunities, Ghostwire Tokyo, Deathloop after year at best on par with PS5 at worst worse performance. Could have used them as good learning opportunities for things like SFS.
Next up Forza & Starfield
Variants as in custom consoles. Probably not. At best maybe a bundle.
maybe a forza ? I think they would have already announced a starfield one
Keystone reloaded?
Keystone is the kodename for the streaming only konsole, an almost production ready iteration was shown by phil spencer, but it was shelved because it wasn't able to meet the price requirement.
The rumor is that ms will retry in 2025 leveraging a wider adopted game pass, and new tech that will allow it to make it cheaper.
Due to the lack of a proper kodename, from now on I will name it keystone reloaded.
The rumor is that ms will retry in 2025 leveraging a wider adopted game pass, and new tech that will allow it to make it cheaper.
Due to the lack of a proper kodename, from now on I will name it keystone reloaded.
Are you spelling it like this because you are hinting that Microsoft is going to buy WB/Netherealm giving them the Mortal Kombat IP and the rights to spell everything with a K?
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