Why Nintendo Won't Grow Up

[jvd]

Don't forget to add in platformers and rpgs to suzuki , I'm pretty sure he has some of those on his plate

I will have to check some more but its so hard to find all of what he's done

it's not so hard to activate this link:
http://www.sega-rd2.com/prof/work_e.html

if you have a hard time finding plateformers and rpgs suzuki worked it probably is because there isn't any..

So according to that link he was on vacation when the genesis and the saturn were out in stores ? I'm pretty sure he made a game or two for those systems. I'm def sure he made games for the saturn

 

[Natoma]

Sony published, or is going to publish, Wipeout, GT3, Dropship, Primal, The Getaway, and Mark of Kri.

Those games are inhouse 1st party (even if some were published in the Us by BAM). If I was willing to talk about Sony as a publisher, the list would be much higher and incluse some recent good games, like Socom and Sly Racoon.

They aren't 1st party inhouse. They're 2nd party. Check who developed those games on IGN. They're not Sony. They were published by Sony.

 

[Phil]

To my knowledge, the majority of those games are 1st party Sony games. Leaving out Wipeout's team (today: SCE Liverpool, formerly: Psygnosis), SCE Cambridge (Primal, Dropship), Team Soho (Getaway) are 1st party's but with different names. Evolution Studios (WRC) might falls under the same category. Not sure about Polyphony Digital, maybe even they are 1st party Sony devs..

 

[Magnum PI]

I was goung to stay out of this but....

I have a problem with people who idolise Miyamoto/Suzuki, Naka etc.

It is just that it's just about impossible to tell what they've actually contributed over the years. Not one of those people worked alone on their projects and yet no one else on the teams receives any credit.

i do not entirely agree.

for if you look at the credits of the latest mario:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/credits/gameId,7178/

it's very extensive and detailed.

of course in the media myiamoto name comes first..

A case in point is Metroid Prime, had the game been a dog, it would have been Retros fault, because it's a good product people immediately give Miyamoto credit without a thought for how much direct involvement he had, how many of the key decisions he made.

which peoples ? journalists ?

I have a great deal of respect for these people, but I think that you have to keep their contributions in perspective, game development is done by teams, you need talent accross the board to produce a good product.

i agree with you. it's why i said miyamoto "worked on" concerning the list i gave. i know that it can be a decisive or capital contribution, or a less important one, maybe even negligible.

i never said he created every game he worked on, he's often (co)producer, or executive (co)producer..

 

[Magnum PI]

So according to that link he was on vacation when the genesis and the saturn were out in stores ? I'm pretty sure he made a game or two for those systems. I'm def sure he made games for the saturn

the page i gave doesn't list conversions of the arcade games.
this page seems more complete in this regard:
http://www.planetxbox.com/shenmuedojo/yu.html

you're right btw some of these games were ported to saturn, genesis, DC..

his work (excepted shenmue) seems targeted to arcades, not to consoles.

 

[Blade]

It's hard to compare Suzuki to Miyamoto in one way: Miyamoto works on 80-90% of Nintendo games, Suzuki works only on AM2 games.. which make up around 10-15% of Sega's releases. They have different roles within their companies.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

But that's precisely why I think Suzuki > Miyamoto. He contributed to more genres and in significant ways. Miyamoto probably gets his name on a project for bringing the donuts to the development teams at Nintendo. Hilarious that even Eternal Darkness credits him. It's ridiculous.

Btw, Sega's average at Gamerankings.com is 76.3%, which includes alot of substandard quick stuff on PS2, GCN, Xbox that came out recently due to Sega's financial woes. Nintendo averages 81.8%. That's not a huge difference really. Even less when you take out Rareware.

I think ERP hit the nail on the head - Miyamoto gets way more credit than he deserves compared to other head developers. He refined platform games and action RPGs, and contributed in minor ways to other genres.

He played no part in about 80% of gaming.

He's great, but let's be realistic here...

 

[Natoma]

To my knowledge, the majority of those games are 1st party Sony games. Leaving out Wipeout's team (today: SCE Liverpool, formerly: Psygnosis), SCE Cambridge (Primal, Dropship), Team Soho (Getaway) are 1st party's but with different names. Evolution Studios (WRC) might falls under the same category. Not sure about Polyphony Digital, maybe even they are 1st party Sony devs..

I stand corrected.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Hilarious that even Eternal Darkness credits him.

As a producer, nothing more(most people ignore who the producer is anyway). That said, Denis seemed to think he had a lot of advice that helped the game quite a bit. People mainly credit Miyamoto with the titles he directed, not those he produced. Compare OoT to Majora's Mask. Same team, Miyamoto directed one and not the other. The difference is very clear to me.

 

[V3]

But that's precisely why I think Suzuki > Miyamoto.

I heard Suzuki, put his paycheck on the line to create Hang-On. Anyway, when I was a kid Hang-On, was my favourite game. Even though the arcade cabinet was too big for me, at the time, I still like Hang-On. That was the best game, nothing on Atari or Famicom can compare to it.

Miyamoto maybe a god with joypad style game, but Suzuki had created some wanderful gaming experience, that I always appreciated. The latest being F355 cabinet, that was sure joy to play.

With the arcade dying, its really sad, that we will be limited to joypad, keyboard and mouse for the future fun. Nothing mind blowing anymore.

 

[wazoo]

To my knowledge, the majority of those games are 1st party Sony games. Leaving out Wipeout's team (today: SCE Liverpool, formerly: Psygnosis), SCE Cambridge (Primal, Dropship), Team Soho (Getaway) are 1st party's but with different names. Evolution Studios (WRC) might falls under the same category. Not sure about Polyphony Digital, maybe even they are 1st party Sony devs..

I stand corrected.

what does it mean ??

 

[Magnum PI]

But that's precisely why I think Suzuki > Miyamoto. He contributed to more genres and in significant ways.

you keep repeating the same BS, despite you were proven wrong..
do you think repeating lies make them truth ?

Miyamoto probably gets his name on a project for bringing the donuts to the development teams at Nintendo. Hilarious that even Eternal Darkness credits him. It's ridiculous.

now miyamoto the donuts delivrer ?
what's next ? miyamoto the lawnmower man of nintendo ?

what do you know of his contribution to eternal darkness ?

Btw, Sega's average at Gamerankings.com is 76.3%, which includes alot of substandard quick stuff on PS2, GCN, Xbox that came out recently due to Sega's financial woes. Nintendo averages 81.8%. That's not a huge difference really. Even less when you take out Rareware.

what's your point ?

I think ERP hit the nail on the head - Miyamoto gets way more credit than he deserves compared to other head developers. He refined platform games and action RPGs, and contributed in minor ways to other genres.

he only "refined" platform games and action RPGs ?
when will you stop revisionism ?

his contribution to plateformers and arpg are major.. only a fool could deny that.
he created 3D plateformers.. (i guess you'll say that for mario64 he just was the coffee deliverer..)

He played no part in about 80% of gaming.

nobody said that..
he played a major role at nintendo.

He's great, but let's be realistic here...

excluding your posts, what's so unrealistic has been said ?

 

[Magnum PI]

But that's precisely why I think Suzuki > Miyamoto.

With the arcade dying, its really sad, that we will be limited to joypad, keyboard and mouse for the future fun. Nothing mind blowing anymore.

too bad arcade is dying, apparently consoles have taken market shares of arcade. is it a bad thing ? i don't know.

i agree with the guy who says this makes no sense comparing suzuki (arcade guy) and miyamoto(console guy). comparing miyamoto and yuki naja would make far more sense.

 

[PC-Engine]

I guess we shouldn't praise Steven Spieberg or George Lucas either, I mean without the special effects teams, they wouldn't be anything right?

Regarding the arcades, IIRC SEGA is the only one left holding the fort in that field and they've been doing pretty well.

 

[Ozymandis]

Wow, a long but interesting thread

Miyamoto is one of the top game designers. That's inarguable. Personally, I find him to be:

1) Very consistent in terms of quality
2) Extremely limited as far as what genres and themes
3) Overly simplistic in terms of gameplay

That's just my opinion. He's a great developer in some ways, but he's not for me. Yuji Naka is much more impressive to me personally

And none of Suzuki's work, as good as it is, is considered genre defining.

Heh.

Virtua Fighter series not the defining 3d fighter?

You've got to be kidding me.

 

[wazoo]

That's just my opinion. He's a great developer in some ways, but he's not for me. Yuji Naka is much more impressive to me personally

Sonic is the definition of "over simplistic gameplay"

 

[Ozymandis]

Sonic is the definition of "over simplistic gameplay"

Compared to what? Mario?

And I think that Naka has developed more than just Sonic, eh?

 

[V3]

too bad arcade is dying, apparently consoles have taken market shares of arcade. is it a bad thing ? i don't know.

Yes, its a bad thing. Console is console, but Arcade is closer to an videogames theme park, than anything.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Yuji Naka > Miyamoto as well:

Sonic
Phantasy Star
NiGHTS
Burning Rangers
Sonic Adventure
Phantasy Star Online
Samba de Amigo

Platform, RPG, Music, Adventure, Network RPG. That's a pretty impressive list. He also suffers from Miyamoto's weakness for poor narrative and story though, but his games aren't as simplistic.

 

[Magnum PI]

Sonic is the definition of "over simplistic gameplay"

Compared to what? Mario?

not compared to anything.
in an absolute way..

you're the one denouncing over simplistic gameplay. just see it everywhere, not only where it suits you..

And I think that Naka has developed more than just Sonic, eh?

he mainly worked on sonic games..
and on samba del amigo (maracas simulator), chu chu rocket, pso..

do these titles represents the summum in gameplay sophistication ?

as miyamoto developed more than mario.. a game that i find have more depth than sonic.

anyway what's so bad with a basic but solid gameplay ?
pac man, panzer dragoon, mario, sonic, the house of the dead, tetris...

would complex gameplay be intrinsinquly good ? would a basic gameplay would be intrinsinquly bad ? i don't think so.

i don't see basic gameplay being a problem.