Why Nintendo Won't Grow Up

[BenSkywalker]

I remember something like Pitfall, being a side level things, that was on Atari. The other one was my fav for Atari, I think the title was Hero. It involved some shooting and blowing up wall. Then there is the Arcade, I remember playing quite abit of side scrolling game, like Kung-Fu.

Pitfall moved you from 'level' to 'level', it didn't really have scrolling involved. IIRC, didn't Kung-Fu Master hit the arcades after SMB was launched?

What radical departure did Tekken made from VF ?

3D had already been done, the difference for VF was making a fighting game out of it. The biggest difference to me between the originals in both series was speed. VF felt way too sluggish IMO(not that Tekken was great in that aspect, but much better then VF IMO).

We had free roaming in many 3D flight sim games for PC.

We did? IIRC it wasn't until 1999 that the first fully 3D flight sim hit. I know they had psuedo 3D prior to that(dating back ages actually) but the terrain was just a hack and didn't calculate properly.

Beside corridor games were spawned from those Wolfenstain and Doom. As far I as I know, Corridor style was more to do with hardware limitation at the time. They didn't have N64 before than you know.

I didn't mean corridor in the strictest sense of the word. The original Crash was in 3D, a very limited and confining 3D that was akin to being stuck in a corridor. You could move up or down as much as you wanted, or left or right as much as you wanted in a particular area but not in any direction at one point.

Like Miyamoto said, he didn't start with a core level mechanics. He created the underlying mechanic first, than create core level around that. Its too bad many games doesn't have the underlying mechanics to start with and just copy what they can see at the core level design.

The underlying mechanics frequently require entirely new core mechanics to work however. SM64 couldn't have worked under any other engine that was around at the time as a singular example.

 

[Magnum PI]

Pitfall moved you from 'level' to 'level', it didn't really have scrolling involved. IIRC, didn't Kung-Fu Master hit the arcades after SMB was launched?

kung fu master was released in 1984.
Super Mario Bros. was released in Japan on 9/13/85

We did? IIRC it wasn't until 1999 that the first fully 3D flight sim hit. I know they had psuedo 3D prior to that(dating back ages actually) but the terrain was just a hack and didn't calculate properly.

who cares if terrain was a hack and didn't calculate properly.
it doesn't prevent the fact that free roaming in 3D was existing long before..

anyway what's does it have to do with mario64 ? this is not a flight sim. this was the first real 3D plateformer. some others were perhaps using 3d graphics but their gameplay were definitively not 3D.

mario64 was very new, fresh and innovative at its time.

mario 64 is milestone in videogame history, like super mario bros,virtua fighter...

 

[V3]

Pitfall moved you from 'level' to 'level', it didn't really have scrolling involved. IIRC, didn't Kung-Fu Master hit the arcades after SMB was launched?

Level by level is still side way. It didn't scroll was more to do with hardware. I am pretty sure I played and completed Kung-Fu in Arcade long before SMB.

3D had already been done, the difference for VF was making a fighting game out of it. The biggest difference to me between the originals in both series was speed. VF felt way too sluggish IMO(not that Tekken was great in that aspect, but much better then VF IMO).

2D had already been done as well, even scrolling 2D. Speed ? Is that even radical ? At best the speed differential is minor. But VF is and always been faster than Tekken. Tekken is just more lenient in its button input. VF speed reflect the dexterity of your hands. Tekken had more buffer. But it was minor difference. But by the time Tekken came out, there was VF2, which is faster than Tekken.

We did? IIRC it wasn't until 1999 that the first fully 3D flight sim hit. I know they had psuedo 3D prior to that(dating back ages actually) but the terrain was just a hack and didn't calculate properly.

1999 ? Don't think so. Flight sim and racing sim was one of the earliest to adopt 3D polygon.

I didn't mean corridor in the strictest sense of the word. The original Crash was in 3D, a very limited and confining 3D that was akin to being stuck in a corridor. You could move up or down as much as you wanted, or left or right as much as you wanted in a particular area but not in any direction at one point.

Mr Jason Rubbin said Crash being corridor was limited by 3D hardware (PSX) ? He always wanted free roaming, that's why with PS2 they made Jax and Daxter.

The underlying mechanics frequently require entirely new core mechanics to work however. SM64 couldn't have worked under any other engine that was around at the time as a singular example

Yes, that's true, but the underlying mechanics comes first for Miyamoto.

 

[Peppermonkey]

Here's a better question. Why won't people in general grow up? In the eyes of the non-gamer, video games are an immature thing. People laugh when I say that I play a lot of video games. I do not consider very many games to be too "kiddy" to play (Barney, Teletubbies, Rugrats, the GC Mickey Mouse game).

I refuse to adhere to the non-gamer's code and "grow-up", because that would mean I would stop playing video games. The only way to get me to stop playing video games is if they pry them out of my cold dead hands!

Nintendo's games do not focus primarily on kids, they are trying to make games that all ages would like. You know, the type of games that parents wouldn't have a hissy fit about, and the type of games that give enough depth for a 20+ year old to enjoy immensely.
Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, Mortal Kombat, Timesplitters 2... these are obviously not "kiddy" games and they show that Nintendo is willing to cater for these age groups. Obviously, not everybody is seeing this change and the damage Sony did to Nintendo has not yet been fixed.

 

[Magnum PI]

before asking why ppl don't grow up i would first ask why gamers don't grow up..

because the ppl i see mocking "kiddy" games and "kiddy" consoles.. are gamers..

 

[wazoo]

[url]http://www.adr.com/adr?page=...021216&mseq=8309&acc=BT20021216008309
[/url]

quote:WSJ(12/17) Violent Videogames Are Mainly Bought For Kids (Dow Jones News Service)
Updated: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:02PM ET


By Joseph Pereira

 

[Tagrineth]

Mr Jason Rubbin said Crash being corridor was limited by 3D hardware (PSX) ? He always wanted free roaming, that's why with PS2 they made Jax and Daxter.

PSX limiting? Hardly. Play Metal Gear Solid and you'll see some very good 3D roaming-style gameplay. Not really corridors. Granted it isn't a platformer, but you get the idea.

Oh, and then there's Tony Hawk, which is very free-roaming and fully 3D.

 

[Blade]

Tag: And then again, Crash is like a second-generation PSX game while MGS/THPS came out 2+ years later.

The hardware's abilities became more apparent over time, I assume.

 

[Phil]

Mr Jason Rubbin said Crash being corridor was limited by 3D hardware (PSX) ? He always wanted free roaming, that's why with PS2 they made Jax and Daxter.

PSX limiting? Hardly. Play Metal Gear Solid and you'll see some very good 3D roaming-style gameplay. Not really corridors. Granted it isn't a platformer, but you get the idea.

Oh, and then there's Tony Hawk, which is very free-roaming and fully 3D.

I assume PSX couldn't handle what Naughty Dog wanted to create. I think Spyro the Dragon was full roaming 3d too, but had it's fair limitations. Even MGS, with quite frequant loading times as I remember. I trust that J. Rubin had good reasons for making Crash they way it turned out.

 

[V3]

PSX limiting? Hardly. Play Metal Gear Solid and you'll see some very good 3D roaming-style gameplay. Not really corridors. Granted it isn't a platformer, but you get the idea.

Oh, and then there's Tony Hawk, which is very free-roaming and fully 3D

Go ask Rubin. He said it.

Anyway MGS would be classified as corridor by Ben. Tony Hawk you are confined in Skate Park, which would be a corridor as well I assume. And Mario 64 you are confined in a room, and it wasn't big either.

 

[Magnum PI]

this article inspired an editorial to tokyopia:

http://www.tokyopia.com/articles.asp?articlesid=36