Why Nintendo Won't Grow Up

[CaptainHowdy]

Semus and Lornie, the 2 xbox whores, bashing Nintendo non "adult" games.....how surprising..........

yes you're right, what a bad not to say strange choice..
and i agree w/ your other remark too..

for sure the typical miyamoto stuff doesn't satisfy the tastes of every gamer. (no one could satisfy everyone tastes..)

but why would he have to change ?

i prefer nintendo making deals w/ other companies like capcom and/or using new talents.. and miyamoto continuing to do what he does so well.

there is still a big audience for his stuff, and not only fans and kids..

and about the stereotypes: the stereotype i see the most these days is about violence and immorality. for many people videogames = slaughter, mass-killing, snipping, cars roberry, whores.... i think THIS is the stereotype that do much damage to the videogames and the gamers. and i see miyamoto works doing much good against it. this is true for rare gems like ICO too.

Yup, its a shame people consider Murder/Rape/Stealing to be mature, I always thought it was the most immature and @#$#ed up element in the world that would think such things are cool, its a @#$# up world we live in.

 

[zurich]

As ERP said, you can't change people's minds over the internet. That said, why are we typing?

 

[Magnum PI]

As ERP said, you can't change people's minds over the internet. That said, why are we typing?

i'm typing because i have way too much spare time on my hands.

 

[Colourless]

Is U8 an orthogonally projected game like Diablo?

Yes it is orthogonally projected. I can't be sure if it's the exact same projection as Diablo, but I strongly suspect it would be.

 

[Natoma]

Zurich

Sony has stated many times that they recognize the fragility in franchises and would like to move to entirely new games/titles this generation, rather than rely on PSX brands

Like GT3? Sony dumped the franchises that sucked, and wisely so. The biggest games on the PS2- MGS2, FFX, GTA3, GT3. I see a pattern emerging, just give me another minute and I'm sure I'll figure it out

Ben, GT3 aside, I think you realize that every game you just listed was third / second party. They play by different rules. SCE's first party efforts are virtually devoid of PSX sequels, save maybe Arc the Lad, Everybody's Golf, and some other obscure japanese games.

Well you have to admit, there aren't too many SCE first party efforts that are worth making a sequel over.

Call it whatever you like, but Sony just doesn't have strong first party games. Never have.

Though I'll tell you this. Their promise to bring out War Hawk 2 close to launch was *the* reason why I got a PS2 in the first place when it came out.

So I was ever so pissed when it didn't come out. Sequels do matter when the games are amazing.

I have more to say, but I'm only on page 2 right now.. So I'll save it for a later post.

 

[wazoo]

Well you have to admit, there aren't too many SCE first party efforts that are worth making a sequel over.

Call it whatever you like, but Sony just doesn't have strong first party games. Never have.

Gt3, Mark of Kri, Wipeout, dropship, primal, Ico, getaway (some like it), parappa, vic ribbon

 

[BoddoZerg]

Threads like this confirm my suspicion that Miyamoto is suffering from "Tolkien syndrome" : he's become so legendary that everyone becomes either a drooling worshipper or a cynical hater. The worshippers assume that everything in the genre was invented by him, while the haters call him an overhyped sellout.

It's true - nothing is really original. Not Tolkien, not Miyamoto, and definitely not any form of entertainment in this day and age. You can't really make a completely original video game now, because every playable idea has been done. Anything innovative enough to separate itself from the crowd is simply too weird to be viable. The same thing happened to movies long ago... when was the last time you saw a top-notch film that doesn't fall into one cliched genre or another? Sure, you have your occasional low-budget indies, but the really great movies are all formulaic to some extent - your Matrix, your Lord of the Rings, your Crouching Tiger, they all fall nicely into genres that have been defined, treaded and retreaded long ago.

Just as originality of genre can no longer be considered a requisite for movies, it really is no longer a consideration for videogames. The recent innovations in genre-spanning games have been mild at best. Warcraft III may be a "RPG" hybrid, but the actual RPG elements are few - in contrast, Shattered Galaxy has much more RPG/RTS hybrid features, but it is a sucky game. Everything becomes stereotypic after a short while; Thief was extremely innovative when it appeared, but with oodles of sneaky Snakes, Operatives, and Agents, the sneaky game is every bit as much of a cliche as the Quake-style shooter. There's nothing wrong with Miyamoto staying in a genre he feels comfortable with; you might as well criticize Blizzard for making too many RTS's, or id for making too many 3d engines. In fact, I think it's beneficial for a game developer to stick to a genre he knows - just look at the awesome stuff coming out of places like Blizzard, Bungie, and id. (and Nintendo itself)

On the other hand, people who worship Miyamoto for creating everything in every video game today are equally misguided. He had lots of contributions to a few genres, especially platformers, but there are plenty of genres that exist with no help from Miyamoto. As much as he's contributed, that also doesn't mean that he's infallible, or that he can remain relevant forever... George Lucas was a god too, until he made Star Wars Episode 1.

 

[Blade]

Miyamoto doesn't stay confined in a handful of genres, though.. just as most game designers don't.

He's spread his philosophy on games all over the Nintendo 1st-party library.. covering almost every genre now.

 

[zurich]

Miyamoto doesn't stay confined in a handful of genres, though.. just as most game designers don't.

He's spread his philosophy on games all over the Nintendo 1st-party library.. covering almost every genre now.

Mushrooms?

 

[Blade]

Eh?

 

[zurich]

Eh?

His philosophy has spread to all Nintendo titles... philosophy of mushrooms?

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Blade]

Seriously, though.. the man and his teams have crafted a golden game in a multitude of genres.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I stand by what I said: Miyamoto = great, but not god-like or greater than others like Yu Suzuki (Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, F355, Shenmue, Daytona, Space Harrier, Hang On, Afterburner - ie. many good games in a variety of genres).

Pikmin is an RTS clone with a fruity (vegetable actually) twist. It's not that innovative really, but it's still a great game.

I respect Miyamoto, but he didn't invent 3D and he has only a touched a limited amount of genres and even less story/character/narrative subject matter.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

I stand by what I said: Miyamoto = great, but not god-like or greater than others like Yu Suzuki (Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, F355, Shenmue, Daytona, Space Harrier, Hang On, Afterburner - ie. many good games in a variety of genres).

Pikmin is an RTS clone with a fruity (vegetable actually) twist. It's not that innovative really, but it's still a great game.

I respect Miyamoto, but he didn't invent 3D and he has only a touched a limited amount of genres and even less story/character/narrative subject matter.

Suzuki's titles are not have the quality of Miyamotos, those are good games, not great, Segas games average around 75-85% average, while Nintendos titles stick to the 90-100% margin.

 

[Natoma]

Well you have to admit, there aren't too many SCE first party efforts that are worth making a sequel over.

Call it whatever you like, but Sony just doesn't have strong first party games. Never have.

Gt3, Mark of Kri, Wipeout, dropship, primal, Ico, getaway (some like it), parappa, vic ribbon

Sony published, or is going to publish, Wipeout, GT3, Dropship, Primal, The Getaway, and Mark of Kri.

I don't know about Vic Ribbon except that it's been compared to Parappa.

So that leaves Parappa and Ico as Sony first party titles. The rest are 2nd or 3rd party.

So as I stated before, Sony just doesn't have a strong lineup of first party titles.. Never have.

Hopefully they will rectify this problem in time for the PS3 (and introduce a goddamned War Hawk sequel).

 

[Magnum PI]

I stand by what I said: Miyamoto = great, but not god-like or greater than others like Yu Suzuki (Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, F355, Shenmue, Daytona, Space Harrier, Hang On, Afterburner - ie. many good games in a variety of genres).

i presented objective elements that show the amount of contribution of miyamoto at least double in quantity than yu suzuki.

and what do i read ?

suzuki worked on shenmue, racing games, shoot'em up, fighting games
you say it's a variety of genre.

miyamoto worked on plateformers, survival horror (eternal darkness), arpg, fps (goldeneye), rts, fighting games (killer instinct, ssb), shoot'em up (starfox), racing (mario kart), and even other genres with pokemon, puzzle games, mario paint, pilotwings, animal forest.. and you say he touched a limited amount of genres..

am i allowed to see bias in your arguing ?

Pikmin is an RTS clone with a fruity (vegetable actually) twist. It's not that innovative really, but it's still a great game.

a clone ?
a clone = an exact copy..
what game pikmin is a clone of ?

maybe it's an RTS but in no way it is a RTS clone..

anyway i think it's more than a RTS. it incorporates elements from other genres, elements of arcade.. it definitely brings something new in the RTS genre.

I respect Miyamoto, but he didn't invent 3D and he has only a touched a limited amount of genres

should he have touched every imaginable genre ?
give me the name of a videogame professionnal that hans't only touched a limited amount of genres...

and even less story/character/narrative subject matter.

are we speaking about a videogame creator or a novel writer ?

maybe your personnal idea of what videogames should be implies lots of scenarizing and writing. it seems not to be myiamoto idea.
it's not a problem w/ miyamoto, it's just a divergence of opinion b/w him and you..

don't you have more solid critics of miyamoto ? it must be possible..

 

[jvd]

Don't forget to add in platformers and rpgs to suzuki , I'm pretty sure he has some of those on his plate. I will have to check some more but its so hard to find all of what he's done . Have a good weekend guys

 

[Magnum PI]

Don't forget to add in platformers and rpgs to suzuki , I'm pretty sure he has some of those on his plate

I will have to check some more but its so hard to find all of what he's done

it's not so hard to activate this link:
http://www.sega-rd2.com/prof/work_e.html

if you have a hard time finding plateformers and rpgs suzuki worked it probably is because there isn't any..

 

[ERP]

I was goung to stay out of this but....

I have a problem with people who idolise Miyamoto/Suzuki, Naka etc.

It is just that it's just about impossible to tell what they've actually contributed over the years. Not one of those people worked alone on their projects and yet no one else on the teams receives any credit.

A case in point is Metroid Prime, had the game been a dog, it would have been Retros fault, because it's a good product people immediately give Miyamoto credit without a thought for how much direct involvement he had, how many of the key decisions he made.

I have a great deal of respect for these people, but I think that you have to keep their contributions in perspective, game development is done by teams, you need talent accross the board to produce a good product.

 

[wazoo]

Sony published, or is going to publish, Wipeout, GT3, Dropship, Primal, The Getaway, and Mark of Kri.

Those games are inhouse 1st party (even if some were published in the Us by BAM). If I was willing to talk about Sony as a publisher, the list would be much higher and incluse some recent good games, like Socom and Sly Racoon.