Why Nintendo Won't Grow Up

[Legion]

Tangrineth Grandia 2 first appeared on the DC

Captainhowdy even nintendo games can be said to be rehashes of each other. Almost every nintendo platformer seems to rehash the same basic platformer elements. It would be rather hard not to. Why don't we judge our games on their merits and not on whether or not you can find another game with an engine that possess similiar aspects?

Modeled after something nintendo did? I can't say that is true. How do you know they didn't come up with the idea first and that it just took some time for their dreams to materialize? Honestly, i can't say that anything miyamoto has done is absolutely amazing. He has turned out some fun games but then so have others. He is a very imaginitive person but i wouldn't say his contributions are worth more than other's as gifted or more so in the field.

 

[zurich]

Wow you're taking this personally.

But if you must.. try Ico on for size. Or Rez (although Rez' visual style is pretty much directly ripped off Tron )

From what I understand, Pikmin is a Lemmings / RTS hybrid.

Sony has stated many times that they recognize the fragility in franchises and would like to move to entirely new games/titles this generation, rather than rely on PSX brands (ie: Sly Cooper, The Getaway, J&D/R&C, Primal, etc).

Ugh I could type out a whole paragraph about constructively critiquing Miyamoto's work, finding valid faults/omissions, and due to this, how resentment could build amongst other camps of gamers... but you're frothing again and I'm tired and find sleep more appealing atm.

 

[Legion]

damn good point there zurich. ICO was a very interesting game. So was ZOE. Both had interesting and compelling manner of play.

 

[zurich]

As an aside, if you think hard to wrap your head about the concept..

There's a literary theory I studied in a Criticism class in University called (bleh) the "Intertextual Theory". It basically says that NOTHING is truely original, as everything we see, read, experience subconciously influences our own product/work. This holds for literature, music, art, and it would seem, video games.

Ofcourse, its purely a theory, but I absolutely believe in it. So before you start nitpicking about similarities with "my big PS2 list", think about that for a second.

Some designers like Yu-Suzuki have done everything from Racers, Fighers, Shooters, pseudo-RPGs, etc., while Miyamoto has (generally speaking) stayed confined to a select few genres. There are probably business reasons behind this, but its certainly enough to garner valid criticism from some groups.

 

[Blade]

Zurich: Pikmin and Lemmings have nothing in common outside of th' fact that they're both very enjoyable. You got the RTS part right, though. Pikmin is fairly unique, but the closest hybrid genre is probably either Adventure/RTS or Platformer/RTS.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Zurich

Sony has stated many times that they recognize the fragility in franchises and would like to move to entirely new games/titles this generation, rather than rely on PSX brands

Like GT3? Sony dumped the franchises that sucked, and wisely so. The biggest games on the PS2- MGS2, FFX, GTA3, GT3. I see a pattern emerging, just give me another minute and I'm sure I'll figure it out

Some designers like Yu-Suzuki have done everything from Racers, Fighers, Shooters, pseudo-RPGs, etc., while Miyamoto has (generally speaking) stayed confined to a select few genres. There are probably business reasons behind this, but its certainly enough to garner valid criticism from some groups.

And none of Suzuki's work, as good as it is, is considered genre defining.

Legion-

Honestly, i can't say that anything miyamoto has done is absolutely amazing. He has turned out some fun games but then so have others. He is a very imaginitive person but i wouldn't say his contributions are worth more than other's as gifted or more so in the field.

Try and find someone in the industry that agrees with you. Miyamoto's games aren't without fault, none of them. That said, name me someone who has a track record as strong as his, or even close for that matter.

 

[Tagrineth]

Tangrineth Grandia 2 first appeared on the DC

Huh? I thought only Grandia Xtreme went to PS2? Oh well, I very much know that Grandia 2 is on DC, I'd probably be playing it right now if I had my VMU's...

All I said is not all RPG's are the same, not that there are original ones on PS2. And in fact there are, FFX plays very differently from its predecessors, but of course once again the ability system is horrendously broken and the battle engine is even EASIER to exploit...

And apparently Breath of Fire V is doing things differently, but I don't remember the exact details...

 

[zurich]

Zurich

Sony has stated many times that they recognize the fragility in franchises and would like to move to entirely new games/titles this generation, rather than rely on PSX brands

Like GT3? Sony dumped the franchises that sucked, and wisely so. The biggest games on the PS2- MGS2, FFX, GTA3, GT3. I see a pattern emerging, just give me another minute and I'm sure I'll figure it out

Ben, GT3 aside, I think you realize that every game you just listed was third / second party. They play by different rules. SCE's first party efforts are virtually devoid of PSX sequels, save maybe Arc the Lad, Everybody's Golf, and some other obscure japanese games.

 

[Tagrineth]

Try and find someone in the industry that agrees with you. Miyamoto's games aren't without fault, none of them. That said, name me someone who has a track record as strong as his, or even close for that matter.

Well, Blizzard technically has a one-step-away-from-flawless record...

 

[BenSkywalker]

SCE's first party efforts are virtually devoid of PSX sequels

For good reason, their first party offerings on the PSX overall sucked. Well, maybe sucked is a strong word but is sure as hell isn't like they were abandoning strong franchises. When a company builds a strong franchise they stick with it, even Sony(see GT). Sony realized how weak their franchises were, overall franchises are why the PS2 and even the PSX before it dominated the market(prior to Enix and Square hopping on board the PSX certainly didn't look dominant).

Tag-

Well, Blizzard technically has a one-step-away-from-flawless record...

Speaking of Blizzard- RPGs with differences- Diablo v FF, nuf said

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Uhm, yes, Miyamoto sticks within certain gametypes, but the difference, is they are styles he invented, he started it all, there is pretty much nothing today that he did not invent and do first.

Ico is original? they invented every piece of its gameplay? funny, when I played it I felt a lot of old school adventure in there, unique in its art style yes, genre defying no..

my point is not to trash PS2, or these games, but to point out, you come in here, and lash out at Miyamoto for rehashing, which is crap, while you rant and play rehashes, yes, RPG games tweak this, and tweak that, but there are not half as many differences between Final Fantasy VII And Final Fantasy X, as there are between SM64 and SMS(and not half as much time actually getting to play your game either)..
to me, its like you have to do research to find something to critisize the man on.

 

[Magnum PI]

He's done a world of good for platformers and action/RPGs, but nothing for driving, sports, or fighting at all.

is it a problem ? should he have gone games in every genre to deserve recognition ?
should he care about driving, sports or fighting ?

Nothing for story or narrative or complex characters.

so what ? is he a videogame creator or a novel writer ?

He's just a guy that made really good simple and super-popular games.

it is not that common.. and he did more than that. he contributed a lot to write genres, mainly plateformer and action RPG, while so much ppl are copying others works (if not miyamoto's)

and he created original and charismatic characters and worlds.

He deserves praise, but at times it gets WAY out of hand.

there is not that much people with such a career and such a contribution to the videogames..

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Miyamoto,+Shigeru

i don't think he's overrated, i see so much people disregard his work as "kiddy" only because he makes mainstream stuff and not hardcore gamers or libidinous teens stuff.. i see this as a quality rather than a default.

 

[Magnum PI]

Someone like Yu Suzuki.

not quite the same track record. let's compare.

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Miyamoto,+Shigeru

produced 37 games
directed 16 games

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Suzuki,+Yu

produced 2 games
directed 8 games

and don't even compare sales..

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Nintendo has done nothing for driving, fighting,sports..
could have sworn I had Mario Kart, FZero, SSB:M, Mario Golf and Mario Tennis, Must have imagined those.

 

[JacksBleedingEyes]

LOL Magnum those links are very helpfull
Sure Yu came out with the two shenmues,
but they had too much hype about them.
(kinda why i bought them both)
They were "infused" with quality.
Miyamoto on the other hand producess quality.
Just look at the N64 for example (quality not quantity).
How can anyone compare those 2 track records
I mean I doubt we're ever going to ever see a Shenmue 3
(even though roumors are about)
And its not because the DC failed either.
Edit: Captain Howdy, super smash brothers and FZero are not directed or produced my Miyamoto.

 

[Goldni]

Everyone should bow down to Miyamoto. He is actually one guy in this industry who is NOT overrated. As far as game design goes, I love American McGee. Alice was the last PC game I played. Also, I think everyone should keep the names of the two level designers in Metroid Prime's credits. Those guys (along with whoever thought up the design doc) are gonna be huge. I'm sure they've already gotten a hefty raise $$. I have'nt seen level design so fun since Zelda OOT..and probably wont again till Zelda WW or the Metroid sequel.

 

[jvd]

Yu Suzuki I though he made more games then those listed on that site.

like this game http://us.imdb.com/Title?0295009 who no one directed or produced... oh incase you don't want to look its Virtual fighter 3.... unless he decieded to skip that one.

 

[Blade]

Miyamoto has a much greater presence than Suzuki, but Suzuki is one of the most visionary designers ever.. so..

 

[jvd]

eh nintendo just shoves his face into everything where as yu likes to hide in his team. whats his team's name now hit makes or something

 

[archie4oz]

For good reason, their first party offerings on the PSX overall sucked.

While you may not be into golf games, Minna no Golf is a pretty damn good golf game. Each one has also gone platinum... As has XI...

Zurich's point is somewhat accurate in the sense that the various SCE branches have been rather aggressive in courting small studios that show potential or have had developed a notable title or two... (Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Suckerpunch, Incognito, Nana On-sha, Harmonix, Zipper)

As for those who say Miyamoto is holding back the game industry or that he needs to make more "mature" titles, I find the notion silly... He's under no obligation to make any games at all (other than it's his job ), and since he enjoys making games and has the relative freedom to make what he wants I don't see what's to complain about. While their sentiments at what Miyamoto could do for other games and genres are understandable, they kind've come off sounding as though their too inadequate to do the job...

I mean Miyamoto's been sort of a hero for me since I was 5 years old, and Yu Suzuki and Hideo Kojima since I was 10 and 12 respectively however I don't think the industry needs them to step out beyond their percieved realms to push the industry to the "next level"... There's always others out there who will rise out of the works to create new fun and innovative games (Masaya Matsuura comes to mind)...