Revolution info/speculation from ex Nintendo employee

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Regards free online services, how much would they cost to run? ISPs have to worry about bandwidth. With a big userbase and lots of access, won't Nintendo or whoever have to pay some telecoms company somewhere for hosting costs?

Of course they'd hope to make it back on selling more games, but how much would they need to make up? It seems to me Live! costs MS an arm and a leg, as otherwise why are they losing so much flippen money? Cost of hardware isn't enough to vapourise all software profits.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
It seems to me Live! costs MS an arm and a leg, as otherwise why are they losing so much flippen money? Cost of hardware isn't enough to vapourise all software profits.
On the contrary, I think live is one of the only xbox related products actually making money.
The vast majority of live games are per to per, so the cost of running it is less than free services like message boards and search engines.
The only thing needed is really mating of the players and keeping track of scores and status, the rest is completely on the host users "expense".
Online RPGs and other games that depends on a server to hold the world, almost always costs extra.
If Nintendo Online has “pay to useâ€￾ online services, like an online version of Nintendo Power, it should easily more than pay for itself.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Regards free online services, how much would they cost to run? ISPs have to worry about bandwidth. With a big userbase and lots of access, won't Nintendo or whoever have to pay some telecoms company somewhere for hosting costs?

Of course they'd hope to make it back on selling more games, but how much would they need to make up? It seems to me Live! costs MS an arm and a leg, as otherwise why are they losing so much flippen money? Cost of hardware isn't enough to vapourise all software profits.

Advertisers will pay the costs for a free internet service. I would be shocked if we're not bombarded with ads on Nintendo's online service if it is indeed free.
 
I like how he talks about voice commands thru the headset like thats revolutionary. I did the same thing 20 years ago on my Commodore 64 using a "lipstick" for the game Echelon. "fire fire fire"

He doesn't though, he says totally the opposite. He says the idea's aren't revolutionary but are just very good ideas.

Wow, a game where you could order computer via voice commands. This would be quite refolutionary, if they also invented a time machine, gone back a few years and prevented this feature from beeing implemented in games like UT2004.

How complex was the voice recognition in that game Geeforcer? Why do people on messageboards like to do this? Generalise something so they can make it sound crap? Should we not care about any new GPU because PSX had one in 1994? Was XBox Live not a good feature just because there have been online games for well over 10 years?

Anyway he's not talking about a game being able to use voice recognition. Any game can do that with enough work from the developer. He's talking about it as a feature of the console. Perhaps there is a built in voice recognition engine in the devkit that allows easy implimentation of complex voice recognition techniques.
 
He's talking about it as a feature of the console. Perhaps there is a built in voice recognition engine in the devkit that allows easy implimentation of complex voice recognition.

Like I said before this was already a part of the xbox sdk for a few years already. I think the main problem with this, is that people don't want to talk at their games.

Anyway, I thought you weren't going to argue any more in this thread? ;)
 
Nah, never said that. Just not arguing with you, I've heard your rep. Been told that no good can come of arguing with the Q man :LOL:
 
Qroach said:
Like I said before this was already a part of the xbox sdk for a few years already. I think the main problem with this, is that people don't want to talk at their games.

Anyway, I thought you weren't going to argue any more in this thread? ;)

Or meybe it is not a standart feature, and people dont like to buy upgrades.
So few dev put that in their games.
 
Just not arguing with you, I've heard your rep. Been told that no good can come of arguing with the Q man

who told you that? whomever it is I'll argue until the death with them, because it's not true! :p
 
Or meybe it is not a standart feature, and people dont like to buy upgrades.
So few dev put that in their games.

I don't follow. buy what upgrade? a headset? I think few cevelopers could find a good use for it and that's why it wasn't used. basically teh way I see it, if you have voice control support, you still need to be capable of controlling (whatever) with a controller.
 
Yes I understand you.

But from very complex orders in tatical games, selecting things in a menu (and take the boring parts off), reload (so you can be always ready).Basicaly from N simplicity to new gameplay with to many option/to complex.That is a lot of uses.

But dev only can use with if users do have a headset/micro (and processing power).Current gen headset are not standart (for no live users is a upgrade), but if in next gen it is a standart I bet that it will be used in great extension.
 
[quote="Ali-G]
How complex was the voice recognition in that game Geeforcer? Why do people on messageboards like to do this? Generalise something so they can make it sound crap? Should we not care about any new GPU because PSX had one in 1994? Was XBox Live not a good feature just because there have been online games for well over 10 years?

Anyway he's not talking about a game being able to use voice recognition. Any game can do that with enough work from the developer. He's talking about it as a feature of the console. Perhaps there is a built in voice recognition engine in the devkit that allows easy implimentation of complex voice recognition techniques.[/quote]

I am not making it sound like crap. I simply have an issue with his statement. Let's look at he is saying:

The Nintendo Revolution will also include voice control more advanced than anything seen so far. Nintendogs is just the beginning. To achieve this, Nintendo sent us headsets (similar to ones you can use for Xbox Live) that are wirelessless communicating with the console. Imagine being able to merely call for an airstrike or reload your gun by giving out commands orally. So far, we have put this feature to the test the most; as you can see, I’m excited over this feature.

What he is describing does not sound "more advanced than anything seen so far". In fact, it has been done before. Why do people on messageboards like to do this? Take an existing technology and hype it as revolutionary second coming of Cyberjesus?
 
What he is describing does not sound "more advanced than anything seen so far". In fact, it has been done before.

He just mentions a couple of quick and obvious uses for voice recognition. We can't really tell how advanced the technology is from that. That depends on how effective the recognition is and how easily it can be implimented. In his opinion its more advanced then anything that's come before it.

Why do people on messageboards like to do this? Take an existing technology and hype it as revolutionary second coming of Cyberjesus?

I haven't called this revolutionary. Even the guy your quoting said it wasn't revolutionary, just a very nice feature that he likes a lot.
 
Qroach said:
Or meybe it is not a standart feature, and people dont like to buy upgrades.
So few dev put that in their games.

I don't follow. buy what upgrade? a headset? I think few cevelopers could find a good use for it and that's why it wasn't used. basically teh way I see it, if you have voice control support, you still need to be capable of controlling (whatever) with a controller.

Yes, a headset. Obviously it would take time and money to implement some sort of voice control system and if your potential audience is small maybe it isn't worth it. I don't think I need to tell you that.
As for developers not being able to find a use for it. I really doubt that. I think you would have to be pretty unimaginative to not be able to think of any number of uses for voice control. Now, actually having technology mature enough to make those ideas a reality is something else. There is definitely room for improvement on the technical side of things.
 
I really doubt that.
Well you can doubt that if you like, but this feature has been available for a few years on console and even longer on PC, yet it hasn't caught on in strides. Like I said before, i think the problem is that people don't want to talk "at" thier games, why say something when you can hit a button that will do the same thing much faster. it's a cool feature but it's practical uses aren't that much above adding a touch screen to a console controller (you can find a use but how practical is it).
I think you would have to be pretty unimaginative to not be able to think of any number of uses for voice control.
It's more a matter of practicality (or practical uses) then come up with simple uses.
Now, actually having technology mature enough to make those ideas a reality is something else. There is definitely room for improvement on the technical side of things.
Room for improvement, sure. However there has been mature technolgy in voice recognition for a long time. I don't think Nintendo is going to come along and re-design voice recognition to finally make it work perfectly. That I just don't see happening.
 
Well you can doubt that if you like, but this feature has been available for a few years on console and even longer on PC, yet it hasn't caught on in strides. Like I said before, i think the problem is that people don't want to talk "at" thier games, why say something when you can hit a button that will do the same thing much faster. it's a cool feature but it's practical uses aren't that much above adding a touch screen to a console controller (you can find a use but how practical is it).

What if i want my squad to split up into pairs of 2 , pair one goes in from the north , pair two from the south and pair three from the east ?

How many buttons do i have to smash to acomplish that ? While in the middle of fighting and trying to stay alive ?

Or are next gen consoles going to have 50 buttons like the jaguar ?

No its much simpler for many things to use voice comands. I will agree with you that a simple follow me or stay behind would be easier and faster with a button . But to move on to more complex things it wont happen.

Not to mention the learning disconnect when you go from the solo game to the online game and suddenly x,y,b , left , right ,z , y no longer makes your online pals do what you want them to do .

Voice chat is better than complex button operations and it will deliver a much smaller learning curve on more highly complex titles .

It's more a matter of practicality (or practical uses) then come up with simple uses.
and its more practical for some things to say what you want instead of using complex button patterns to acomplish this .



Room for improvement, sure. However there has been mature technolgy in voice recognition for a long time. I don't think Nintendo is going to come along and re-design voice recognition to finally make it work perfectly. That I just don't see happening.

Well we had a talk about this and i believe looking at the thread (Before it became a flamewar ) you would see that almost every idea in consoles was taken from some where else .

Sure voice command isn't new . But if nintendo can make it work well and make it robust enough to get rid of complex commands it will be a boon for most gamers . As for them just coming along and making vr work perfectly. Well they aren't just coming along. There was nintendogs , hey you picachu attempts by nintendo along with who knows how many aborted projects. So its not really them just coming along. It could be as much as 8 years that they have invested into making voice commands possible and highly developed in the revolution . Figuring that picachu is at least 5 years old now (i belive 6) and it was most likely in developement for at least 2 years .
 
jvd,
What if i want my squad to split up into pairs of 2 , pair one goes in from the north , pair two from the south and pair three from the east ?
Ok, you're the game designer then. tell me how you would split up a squad into two groups and direct them where to go. say there's 10 guys in your squad and you want to split them up into 5 guys and two squads.
How many buttons do i have to smash to acomplish that ? While in the middle of fighting and trying to stay alive ?
not many at all. Have you played brothers in arms? You can do this all while many other functions with a standard controller.
No its much simpler for many things to use voice comands.
I wouldn't say "much simpler" but there are cases where it is simpler, providing what you have to say is relatively short. i don't think the average game consumer would even be interested in yelling commands out. Even people on live have hard time talking while playing certain games.
and its more practical for some things to say what you want instead of using complex button patterns to acomplish this .
You show me a single game that allows for voice commands that is nothering more than short words or really short sentences and I'll say you're right. people are accustomed to talking to each other, not a TV or computer screen.
But if nintendo can make it work well and make it robust enough to get rid of complex commands it will be a boon for most gamers . As for them just coming along and making vr work perfectly. Well they aren't just coming along. There was nintendogs , hey you picachu attempts by nintendo along with who knows how many aborted projects. So its not really them just coming along. It could be as much as 8 years that they have invested into making voice commands possible and highly developed in the revolution. Figuring that picachu is at least 5 years old now (i belive 6) and it was most likely in developement for at least 2 years .
That's the almost the same voice command technology nintendo had back in the famicom days. it's barely advanced past that. Anyway I think if you're expecting something more with voice technology then we've seen in the past, or the present, I think you're going to be dissapointed. At least it's not a feature i think casual gamers will be drawn to.
 
NintendoDS is an experiment for some ideas in Nintendo, they know that they have a lot of influence in the handheld market.

I cannot believe all the FUD and the shit about Revolution, I believe that the console will be a normal console with all the extras that NintendoDS have.

You can emulate the stylus control in the control pad, you only need a small superficie like a graphical tablet and an stylus in the controller and voila you can use the same control of the DS in the Revolution.

I am expecting more an idea similar to the NDS than a Revolutionary concept.
 
So JVD, can you think that example through of spliting one squad into two squads and giving them orders to move or attack something (individually). I'd really like to see how it would work in your opinion with voice controls. I have an idea how to do it, but each time it would require some use of the controller.

Btw, the ghost recon and rainbow six games have supported voice control for a few years now. however the commands tend to be simple single word commands.
 
Ok, you're the game designer then. tell me how you would split up a squad into two groups and direct them where to go. say there's 10 guys in your squad and you want to split them up into 5 guys and two squads.
f I'm no programer , but i would assign each squad member a letter or name and have the bot react to commands given to that name. I would then have key words like north , attack , left right .

not many at all. Have you played brothers in arms? You can do this all while many other functions with a standard controller.
NO i've played the rainbow six games and to set up something like that its a bunch of commands and in a fire fight i'm not going to be able to sit around and punch them in .
Not to mention that i've never gotten anything more complex than split up , stay , go left , go right , cover me in a game while in a fire fight .


I wouldn't say "much simpler" but there are cases where it is simpler, providing what you have to say is relatively short. i don't think the average game consumer would even be interested in yelling commands out. Even people on live have hard time talking while playing certain games.
I belive its much simpler . What is eaiser telling your friend to do something or to go step by step through it for them to do it ?

I can tell you my father would have a much easier time telling the bot he wants to be covred from certian areas then having to remember they key inputs for that set up or to go into a menu and select this and stop the game play .

You show me a single game that allows for voice commands that is nothering more than short words or really short sentences and I'll say you're right. people are accustomed to talking to each other, not a TV or computer screen.

Don't make me laugh . There is allways a first for everything . Right now it may be words and short sentences but does that mean it will stay this way ? Does that mean that nintendo hasn't been developing this to its fullest for the last 5+ years ? Things change. Once there was 2d graphics , then there were 3d graphics . Are you telling me at the time of the console move to 3d you would have pointed at the fx chip and the 32x and said well 3d has only been capable of fairly simiple models with flat shaded polgons . Nothing big , don't see how sony could have textures and thousands of polygons on screen at once. Wont happen ?

Because thats exactly what you are saying right now . Because voice commands are fairly simple right now that nintendo wont have a more complex voice command system next year .

That's the almost the same voice command technology nintendo had back in the famicom days. it's barely advanced past that.

I don't know what games had it in the famicon days . I don't remember any voice command tech games , but i highly doubt its a ssimple as it was back then .

Anyway I think if you're expecting something more with voice technology then we've seen in the past, or the present, I think you're going to be dissapointed. At least it's not a feature i think casual gamers will be drawn to.
I might very well be . But i rather be disapointed that nintendo tried to do something more innovative than more graphics and came up short than for nintendo not to have tried at all .
 
I'm rather dubious of voice commands. Firstly it's not something I'd enjoy. I don't want to sit in my room shouting commands with the rest of the household listening in! It also won't work well if there's much background chatter, I'd have thought.

But mostly, I've never seen voice recognition work flawlessly. Maybe I'm out of touch, but even simple things like using a person's name to select them in a phone or whatever has problems. To get to a level where you can say something like "Group 2, head north, covering fire, group three, secure here. Group four, follow" and have it work even when you're under fire and getting excited and your voice changes in tone...well, if Nintendo have managed that that's some pretty darned fine software!

Personally I think interacting might be easier visually, following where the eyes are looking or where the finger's pointing. This would be more player friendly I think or more technologically plausible (though I ain't no expert by a long stretch!). I'm certainly hoping next-gen lets me select the player I want in Football by looking at them, instead of always choosing someone ridiculous when I press the "change player" button!

Thinking about it, what other new gaming options might voice recognition add? Hows about an RPG where you have to say the spells to cast them? Like DnD theres Concentration required to cast, so if you're molested you have to not break your train of speech. Now throw in there an electric shock pad that zaps you when you get hit, and you've got a more realistic spell-casting gameplay "Mucktuck Filbitilist...OW!" :D
 
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