Unreal engine 3:there will be a revolutionary of rander???

[DegustatoR]

IIRC every NVIDIA chip since Riva TNT supports W-buffering in software emulation mode only, not in hardware. Or not?

 

[KimB]

1. Didn't see it. Some screenshots maybe?
2. Balance of quality vs speed.
3. Could be done in drivers. Doesn't need them anyway with 6x SG MSAA.
4. Not the R300 problem.
5. I had a whole bunch of them available even back then In addition to that, all cards had splitters with them.
6. Not visible 99% of the time. Good Q vs S balance again.
7. Enough even for now, not speaking about 2 years ago.

All this crap? It doesn't matter. Not one bit. You said there were no drawbacks to the R300. It doesn't matter how bad the drawbacks were, or whether they were in hardware or in software, these drawbacks were still there. Your statement was flawed. This is often the fault of people who decide they like something early-on, and later forget the things they don't like.

 

[RejZoR]

Every thing on Earth has its cons and pros. Nothing's pefect.

 

[DegustatoR]

All this crap? It doesn't matter. Not one bit. You said there were no drawbacks to the R300. It doesn't matter how bad the drawbacks were, or whether they were in hardware or in software, these drawbacks were still there. Your statement was flawed. This is often the fault of people who decide they like something early-on, and later forget the things they don't like.

There were NO drawbacks in R300. Did you even read what i said to you? You just took those "drawbacks" of R300 out of nowhere, since there were no drawbacks

And BTW i didn't liked R300 when it came out.

 

[wzh100]

r300 made our graphics world more beautiful.someone said geforce 3 was an evolution,r300 just used more transistors to improve the shader proforrmance,but,we must admit,The world that r300 creates,we have never been.r300 rocked me.and rocded the developer,company,and the graphics world,the evolve thoroughly.

 

[Ostsol]

1. Lack of w-buffering (caused z-buffer errors in Morrowind, for example)

Wasn't morrowwind actually due to vertex shader issues with the software?

IIRC, it was ATI that mentioned that it was a w-buffering issue.

EDIT: Hey, Reverend. . . Is degeneration into a video-card war any better than degenerating into UE3 vs Doom 3 vs HL2?

 

[KimB]

There were NO drawbacks in R300. Did you even read what i said to you? You just took those "drawbacks" of R300 out of nowhere, since there were no drawbacks

Yes, I read it. Of the issues you actually knew about, you argued away saying it was okay that those things weren't supported. That doesn't remove them from existence. That makes them unimportant (at least to you). There's a difference.

Come on, be serious here. If there were no drawbacks of the R300 core, why would ATI bother to improve upon it?

 

[DegustatoR]

Come on, be serious here. If there were no drawbacks of the R300 core, why would ATI bother to improve upon it?

I don't see ATI significantly improving on it for past two years. R350? The same R300, higher clocks. R360? The same R350. R420? From software point of view it is the same R300, just more of it: pipes, clocks, caches... Plus some very subtle tweaking in pixel shader logic (2.0.b) and very simple modification of DXTC ALUs (3Dc).

And from what i heard R520 core will still be heavily R300-based, though it'll arguably be the biggest modification of R300 architecture (SM3 support requires this modification).

So from summer 2002 to, probably, summer 2006, when R600 with SM4 support should arrive, ATI's gonna be reusing R300 architecture (though we have yet to see how much of a change from R300 R520 will be).

 

[KimB]

If you think the R300 architecture is the be all and end all of graphics, you are sorely mistaken. Amazing how you can call ATI's regurgitation of the same core a plus.

 

[DegustatoR]

If you think the R300 architecture is the be all and end all of graphics, you are sorely mistaken. Amazing how you can call ATI's regurgitation of the same core a plus.

Where did i call it a plus? They are clearly beginning to fall behind with this strategy. But the sole ability to reuse R300 core for two past years shows how good that core was when it came out.

 

[KimB]

Except you claim it was flawless. If it was flawless, there would be no reason to improve upon it.

 

[RejZoR]

The only thing that bothers me...
Why do we have to pay full price for heated up soup from yesterday?

 

[DegustatoR]

Except you claim it was flawless. If it was flawless, there would be no reason to improve upon it.

There's always a reason to improve. There was absolutely no reason to fix however since nothing was broken.

 

[hovz]

ummm you realize its chalnoth your arguing with right? hes completely devoid of logic/common sense. just give it up and call in jvd and we can all laugh as they go at it for their mascot

 

[Sigma]

No it's not. r_hdr_ extensions are disabled in Doom 3, they are experimental. Even 6800 won't help here. Trust me, i tried

Hum, I think I read somewhere that someone made them work. But if they are there (the r_hdr_) it is okay to say they're supported....

 

[991060]

If there's anyone familar with UE3(or UE2)'s material system implementation, I'd like to hear his(or her? Is there "her" on this forum? I doubt ) comment on this particular topic, since I'm on a similar project right now. And I found without a robust/scalable material system, it's very hard to implement those advanced effects in a GAME project, within limited budget/time of course.

 

[KimB]

From what I can tell, the UE3's materials system is essentially built up by assembling pieces. From my limited experience with Unreal stuff in the past, this is how I believe it's implemented:

Start with a material. Each material has a set of global parameters (for example: base texture, normal map, specular parameters, etc.), and a set of optional parameters (do you want the material to be reflective? refractive? iridescent?). Each optional parameter that you enable would have a sub-menu of parameters to set, which may include other textures that the added effect could require.

I gather this from what I've seen of the original Unreal and UE2's editing (which is limited, by the way), and from what's been said about UE3.

 

[jb]

If there's anyone familar with UE3(or UE2)'s material system implementation, I'd like to hear his(or her? Is there "her" on this forum? I doubt ) comment on this particular topic, since I'm on a similar project right now. And I found without a robust/scalable material system, it's very hard to implement those advanced effects in a GAME project, within limited budget/time of course.

We have been working with the unreal game for years now. Yes you do run into brick walls with their material systems. However other mods have used it in more detail than we have. If you want you can search the mod developement list to see what issues they have hit and how they were solved.

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

The only thing that bothers me...
Why do we have to pay full price for heated up soup from yesterday?

dunno about you but left over soup re-heated actaully tastes better as the tastes have time to fully blend and mature....

 

[RejZoR]

Haha,but what about 6 months old soup?