Trials Fusion [PS4, XO]

@sebbbi

I always wondered why games don't associate some assets as being applicable to all games types. E.g., couldn't COD/BF define that all of the core game dynamics (rendering engine, animations, physics) be loaded into the system once, then all subsequent loads would take less time whenever a new MP map loads? So it only then loads the map and textures.
 
@sebbbi

I always wondered why games don't associate some assets as being applicable to all games types. E.g., couldn't COD/BF define that all of the core game dynamics (rendering engine, animations, physics) be loaded into the system once, then all subsequent loads would take less time whenever a new MP map loads? So it only then loads the map and textures.
I thought it was obvious that a lot of developers were doing that sort of thing. Look at something like Halo 3, where the first load takes a while because the game is doing things like loading the HDD cache with a large amount of audio permutations. I'd be surprised if a similar line of thinking doesn't get applied to RAM.
 
I always wondered why games don't associate some assets as being applicable to all games types. E.g., couldn't COD/BF define that all of the core game dynamics (rendering engine, animations, physics) be loaded into the system once, then all subsequent loads would take less time whenever a new MP map loads? So it only then loads the map and textures.
Yes, it sounds like a very good idea to keep the loaded data in memory and only load the difference. However in reality that poses many problems.

1. To get the best performance out of a disc (BR or DVD), you need to order the data into linear order to minimize the seek time. For example a 2x BR drive (PS3) loads 9 MB per second. Disc (BR/DVD) seek time can take up to 100 milliseconds. During the seek the drive doesn't transfer anything, so every seek thus costs 0.9 MB (~1 MB). If you would load one megabyte textures randomly distributed on the disc, your loading speed would thus be halved (half of the time spend seeking). This is why games tend to replicate the content for every level, and put them in a linear area on the disc. Every level thus has completely separate content. If levels would share content, there would be lots of seeking involved (and that slows down the loading time).

2. Consoles have limited amount of memory and do not page memory to hard drive. If you run out of memory, you will freeze the console. Games tend leave as little as possible free memory, because that allows the highest quality of assets. If data is loaded in big chunks, the memory management is easy, just free the last data and load the new in the same memory addresses. However if you partially free the old data, and load new data partially, the memory management will become much more painful. You have holes in memory address space (where the old content was freed) and you need to load the new content to those holes (because there's no other memory available). Each asset has a different size (big mesh vs small, big texture vs small), thus it's very hard to load the new meshes in to the same memory addresses as the old ones that were freed (a single mesh or texture needs a big area of linear address space, it cannot be split). This problem is commonly known as memory fragmentation. The more dynamic memory allocation you do, the bigger the problem becomes. On PC it's not a big problem, since the computer can page in stuff to hard drive when the memory runs out (never crashing).

Fortunately both next gen consoles have hard drives (standard) and games are always installed to the hard drive, so the disc seek problem (1) is now a much smaller problem. Memory fragmentation is still a problem however, but many techniques such as virtual texturing and virtual geometry help combating the fragmentation, since these systems load data in fixed sized chunks (all data is split for example to 64KB chunks). This completely eliminates all fragmentation problems for this kind of data. Also both next gen consoles are 64 bit machines, and 64 bit PCs are becoming common. 64 bit address space allows many nice virtual addressing tricks that eliminate the fragmentation issues as long as you load/manage the data in 4 KB chunks. You can virtually map your assets to a big unmapped address space and map/load the pages that are currently resident. The big downside of this technique is that your code becomes almost impossible to port to 32 bit devices. That might be an issue right now, but in a few years even the mobile devices are all based on 64 bit architectures.
 
I know some games have dynamic lighting whereas others have static lighting, wouldn't it be possible to have a mixture of both? So objects start with static lighting until they're introduced with an event/projectile that causes the shadowing to change and an engine could 'paint' that change onto the environment and return to static shadows. In my non-technical mind it'd be a nice cost saving to rendering time and also give the impression of high level illumination. Of course this could only work with items that don't constantly move.

Sorry for burdening you with this stuff. It's just the sort of nonsense that flows through my head pointlessly. :)
 
The extreme events are not for me, sadly. They get too frustrating. Perhaps I have to play with sensitivity if that is an option, but otherwise I am done and the rest of my play will be limited to some time chasing ...
 
The extreme events are not for me, sadly. They get too frustrating. Perhaps I have to play with sensitivity if that is an option, but otherwise I am done and the rest of my play will be limited to some time chasing ...

I am still chasing your times...not a chance :(
Only in very rare cases do I beat you.

For the next unlock, I need to reach 75 medals...but I only have 62 or so...tough times ahead!!
 
Really enjoying the game. Uplay is screwed though - can't connect. Frustrating, I want to see everyone's leaderboards.
 
Questions for sebbbi:

We know you're really good at making Trials, but how good are you at playing Trials? Can you gold/platinum the extreme tracks?

Are there any guys in your office that can best the top players in the community?


I'm really enjoying the extreme tracks, but so far I've only been able to beat the first one, and not without a ton of faults and a lot of time. I'm working on the 2nd won. I can get about half way and then there's a jump I can't pass. I've watched some leaderboard replays and I can't get the height on the jump those guys are getting.
 
I managed to get past the UPlay nonsense and it’s now showing the scores and ghosts of other players.

I’m really enjoying it so far - it’s very addictive. The first bunch of levels were a very nice introduction and they made me feel like I definitely could be good at the game. I guess to some extent watching the YouTube videos have been off-putting to me in the past even though I enjoy watching them, just because they’re always the most difficult levels and look so bloody hard. Anyway, I’ve played through maybe the first twenty courses and haven’t found them frustrating at all. I seem to play best on my first attempt on any of them! As soon as I start restarting, I get worse… At least for the moment anyway.

There’s definitely a lot of nuance to it, it’s not a case of going as fast as humanly possible. I found that if I’m able to get a nice ark from a jump and land at the tip of the other side, no hard landings, then my wheels spend less time in the air (where I’m not able to accelerate), so I’m actually able to maintain speed more effectively.

I love the tongue-in-cheek title music, it genuinely made me laugh aloud! It doesn’t take itself seriously at all. Some modern games have a self-importance about them, but this doesn’t. It kind of reminds me of games I used to play as a child, where it was all about getting the best score – similar to how Rock Band and COD do.

So yeah, I get the ghosts now, but I had to turn them off because it’s quite disheartening to see Arwin’s ghost constantly shoot off into the distance, or when I’m ahead and then crash at some stupidly easy part, then off he goes again. I love the scoreboards and I think I’ll like the ghosts more once I get better. I need to bunny-hop off the tips of jumps more often.

Are there distinct advantages to the bikes? I quite liked the first one, but I’m not sure whether it means I’d be at a disadvantage to other players by using it. It’s a shame the game does collect scores for each of the bikes (unless it already does?) and doesn’t compare them.
 
Got to play a few minutes, messed around with the menus -catchy music btw-, the main screen looked gorgeous to me, used the how to play option, watched the credits -couldn't tell sebbbi apart- and then I played the SynDi AI tutorial and the wind turbines scenario. Fellow forumer OnkBjorni was there floating in the air, among others.

My best time was 49.035. Not so good but could be worse.

Yep he is pretty quick, I can't touch you guys on the FMX levels.
 
Yep he is pretty quick, I can't touch you guys on the FMX levels.
I didn't get there yet (I'm in the 2nd cup, where you have to bailout your motorcyclist), but I think I rather prefer playing against time than aerobatics.
 
I found the demo version for PlayStation 4 on the PSN store today so downloading that for a try at the weekend.

Finally! :)
 
I didn't get there yet (I'm in the 2nd cup, where you have to bailout your motorcyclist), but I think I rather prefer playing against time than aerobatics.

I had to watch a replay of yours to figure out when to bailout, as I was only going a few meters. :???:
 
I had to watch a replay of yours to figure out when to bailout, as I was only going a few meters. :???:
:smile2: You will realise that my jump is not the best model to follow. There is more to it than you can imagine.

I got to just 63 meters or similar, but there are people jumping up to 110+ meters.

How.... it's explained here:

 
:smile2: You will realise that my jump is not the best model to follow. There is more to it than you can imagine.

I got to just 63 meters or similar, but there are people jumping up to 110+ meters.

How.... it's explained here:


I imagine it's possible to jump much further than 115, you need that to get gold. That guy only just managed it.

My best is 97, I was gutted because at the time I assumed it'd take 100 for gold.
 
Uplay still doesn't connect for me eitger, so I can't access the custom tracks. :(
 
My best was 129.523 on the Big Air challenge. AnthonyNPutson (I believe Antan here on B3D) beat me by ~2m. :devilish:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think I ended up at 132 or 134 on the big air, my son is building levels so I will look later. The challenge I really like is the no leaning level. Takes me back to California Games on my Atari Lynx for some reason.

XBL: Talryyn
 
No MSAA, but we are investigating adding a better post process AA filter for a patch later. MSAA has a big performance cost on modern rendering pipelines (deferred shading + lost of post process steps), and it still cannot handle transparencies that well (and does nothing for shader based aliasing). Unfortunately on PC, you cannot access the GPU multisample compression structures (as the compression algorithms are hardware specific). This would allow creation of much better AA filters at a very small extra cost. Maybe Mantle allows this, but it isn't supported yet by wide enough range of hardware.

Sorry for the delay in responding.

This is slightly disappointing. I know there's a steep performance hit with msaa and deferred renderers, but as an end user I would still like to make that choice myself. There are plenty of situations where msaa is usable in "modern rendering pipelines" like BF4 (even before mantle existed). And if memory serves, BF4 doesn't use the tiled based method described by Andrew that allows for more efficient use of msaa . Plus who knows what kind of performance 20nm gpus in the (distant?) future will bring.

I understand that dedicating extra resources to one aspect of a pc port may not be a practical business decision. That's fine, just say that! However, I'm not willing to give a free pass on msaa just because an engine is deferred.

Smooth edges or not, the game is very enjoyable! :p Thank you for your hard work.
 
Back
Top