The U.S. price of 80GB PS3 = $499 today, 40GB model on Nov. 2 = $399

[AlphaWolf]

Halo3 and Gears probably yes. The others you dont know. And 2 games alone dont do the difference. MGS2 and GTA3 alone didnt sell the PS2. It was a total of certain games exclusives and they were too many.

Oh I'm sure a lot of people bought it for the hope of other things to come also, but if instead of MGS2 and GTA3 the ps2 had launched with some eye toy game and dance dance revolution I have no doubt the uptake on the ps2 would have dropped a massive amount.

Did I say they have no interest? That interest grew after they bought the console. Oh and believe me there are multiplatform games they consider more popular than certain exclusives.

Ofcourse it sounds silly but it is pretty much the truth. You think I pull that out of my pocket? You will be suprised by the amount of people that buy a console for just one game that isnt Halo, Gears, Bioshock or PGR.

Just because you, me and a ton of other people in beyond3d view games from a more detailed/creative perspective, doesnt mean the million of gamers out there do the same.

This argument than less popular games are bigger system sellers grows old, the only evidence to back your claim so far is anecdotal. The uptake of systems in months of releases with games like geow and halo3 is more than enough to show they are moving systems. There's no doubt that there's some guy out there that was waiting for dance dance revolution version X, but I assure you he was in the minority. You'd probably need 10-20 random average titles to equal the impact of a gta3 or a mgs2 in terms of moving hardware.

Or maybe Europe is much different than the US

I might know even more that bought 360 for Pro Evo, Smackdown vs Raw, Need for Speed, Drift etc games that in numbers are much more than the 2 shooters you mentioned. The ones that happened to buy Gears or PGR or something else bought it later. Or bought it as a bundle, again not primarily for that game

Sorry but I'm not going to give a lot of credence to your anecdotal evidence as that's going to vary drastically by what games you and your friends may like. Quality games that are heavy on advertising are going to move more boxes than less hyped titles. We know that advertising works, they don't do it just because they think it might. Yes everyone has some different interests and there's no doubt some people didn't buy the box because of Halo3 or because of Bioshock or whatever, and most people won't buy a system just because of one title. However if you did a survey and asked which title most influenced purchases of consoles I have no doubt you'd find that it tracks that better selling games sell more systems.

Seems Europe only was getting its huge share of official bundles.

There are bundles here they are just targeted differently, they don't need to bundle Halo3 in NA, because people are going to buy it anyway.

I was pointing towards the period of launch until the first price drop which was this Summer.

ah ok.

 

[AlNom]

Besides the majority of 360 owners does not own Gears, another portion did not buy 360 for Gears despite that they have it, and another portion had a 360 before Gears was released (how many 360 were sold until November 2006?).

That gives a hint

4M+ to date is still a pretty big chunk Xbox 360 sold a million units in November 2006 (also December 2006).

 

[Arwin]

The PS2 was one of the worst dvd players ever made (at least at release) but the fact is that it released at a time when DVD was just coming into its own but the players were still expensive in comparison.

All the reviews that I read of the PS2 as DVD player at the time, and you can still find some of those online today, stated that the PS2 was a good DVD player compared to players in its price range. I've used the PS2 as a DVD player for 5-6 years since I got one when it was released in Europe. It wasn't one of the worst dvd players ever made by far, certainly not at release. So I'd be interested to learn whether or not the US PS2 was so much worse at release.

Selling people on Blu-ray from DVD is much more difficult than it was selling people on upgrading from VHS to DVD, because the quality upgrade is nowhere near as staggering. All the other features are not really interesting to most buyers, they aren't going to sell a system(to most people), they are just something to play with once you've got it.

The quality upgrade depends a lot on your TV. I'd argue that for 1080p owners, the difference is about the same as going from VHS to DVD. For 720p users, the difference is slightly smaller, but it is still quite impressive.

I think it was actually the improvement in features and lack of degradation that helped DVD at least as much as the quality increase, and right now I'd argue that's the smaller difference here ... BluRay needs to make use of BD-Live and BD-J in order to benefit from this.

However, an important difference between going from VHS to DVD and going from DVD to BluRay is that you don't need a different player for either, and your existing DVD collection even benefits from playing on the new player, and certainly the PS3 has very good playback features and excellent output (upscaling) quality.

I'm sure you could find out if you wanted to search back, but the fact is that they are 2 of the biggest selling games of all time (7 and 11 million) and there's no doubt they helped push the ps2 to where it ended up, ps3 has nothing close to that going for it right now and the only things with even that kind of potential are still 6 months away.

I would argue that at $599, the PS3 didn't have a chance whatsoever to get any game out there that sold 7 / 11 million. At $399, chances for this certainly improve, so that was an important step. I think I agree with you that there aren't any titles on the immediate horizon for which you can predict similar sales, but I would also argue that it is hard to predict which game is going to sell similar quantities in the first place.

@LaaYosh: it's important to remember that while it is true that in Europe soccer has about the same standing as American football in the US, the market is divided up almost through the middle by the PES and FIFA franchises.

@AlphaWolf: wasn't there a recent quote from EA that they also don't expect a single platform until about 15 years from now? That's still three console cycles away.

I think there are two important factors that are being underrepresented in discussions though, on both ends of the scale:

1. The "Next Playstation" Factor
I still think that people are underestimating the 'next-playstation factor'. Some people predicted this wrong initially, because they assumed it would also be selling well 'at any price'. This is obviously not true, 599 is too much for most people, especially those who were just looking for the next Playstation "the games machine" as opposed to the next Playstation "the multi-media device that does everything". But at 399, with the major franchises starting to release their first PS3 versions, it becomes relevant again.

2. The Regional Factor
The 360 is an American product. For the same reason that it does abysmally in Japan, this is what is going to push the 360 forward in the U.S. Already the original Xbox sold twice as well in the U.S. as in Europe and reached 2/3rds of its installbase in the U.S. alone. I think that initially the 360 will win the US, and the PS3 will win Japan and Europe. How this evens out in the long run, I don't know, but right now I feel that the PS3 will have significantly longer legs than either of the two others.

People like us here on the messageboards are much more focussed on individual games and hardware features, and I think we'll too easily overlook the more obvious things like the above. Not that it matters much for the end-result, perhaps, because they cancel each other out, but it's still interesting.

Certainly though, it's going to be a great Christmas again, and I'm loving the whole PS3/Wii/360 slugfest. I'm sticking to my original predictions, that all three will do very well, and that the total console market will increase considerably. Of course it's easy for me to say as I don't have any problems with owning all three (have 2 already), but right now I clearly do have my preference (PS3) for reasons I'll post elsewhere.

However, I recognise very strongly that all three platforms and the companies behind them need all the competition they can get, because without it, they would never work on their respective flaws. And some of these flaws are so strongly engrained, that overcoming them can only be forced by competition.

 

[liolio]

It's all about brand recognizion/price.

And there's also something else, mainstream will jump in (ps3 or 360) when both systems will be affordable, people who buy system @199$ and less are not the more likely to own a HDTV.
Everybody here is too much of a tech enthusiast to see the real estate of HDTV penetration.

BD is a nice bullet point but most of the future owners (those who buy when systems are cheap) are unlikely to own HDTV.
As this generation goes on more and more people will own HDTV but don't take it wrong I think that a lot of the users will play on SDTV, this leverage a lot of the ps3/360 pro/con.

IMHO.

 

[patsu]

This notion that people are buying systems based on games like Little Big Planet and Eye of Judgment is absurd IMO.

Eye of Judgment is pretty niche, but it has potential to venture into other games and non-game areas (using the base technology).

LBP can be pretty compelling to certain segment of consumers (family, female, kids, people who are interested in new gameplay). A few people think that it will help sell PS3. I wouldn't write if off yet.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

You'll notice from the charts that whenever there is a spike in X360 hardware sales there is a spike in sales of Gears of War, Oblivion, Rainbow Six: Vegas, and Guitar Hero II. So those are the titles that are drawing people to X360. Bioshock and Madden may also be a part of that, but they're too new to verify that claim.

This notion that people are buying systems based on games like Little Big Planet and Eye of Judgment is absurd IMO.

 

[Nesh]

Oh I'm sure a lot of people bought it for the hope of other things to come also, but if instead of MGS2 and GTA3 the ps2 had launched with some eye toy game and dance dance revolution I have no doubt the uptake on the ps2 would have dropped a massive amount.

If we isolate these titles no they dont do much difference. But the PS2 came with all the PS1 smash hits plus all the third party multiplatform games you could wish for

This argument than less popular games are bigger system sellers grows old, the only evidence to back your claim so far is anecdotal. The uptake of systems in months of releases with games like geow and halo3 is more than enough to show they are moving systems. There's no doubt that there's some guy out there that was waiting for dance dance revolution version X, but I assure you he was in the minority. You'd probably need 10-20 random average titles to equal the impact of a gta3 or a mgs2 in terms of moving hardware.

The problem is that you have the impression that Pro Evolution, Colin McRae, NFS, and so many other games that existed for more than a decade are not popular. They are very popular. And no these games are not like "dance dance revolution" either which is not of mass appeal.

You confuse popularity with critically acclaimed titles.

Sorry but I'm not going to give a lot of credence to your anecdotal evidence as that's going to vary drastically by what games you and your friends may like. Quality games that are heavy on advertising are going to move more boxes than less hyped titles. We know that advertising works, they don't do it just because they think it might. Yes everyone has some different interests and there's no doubt some people didn't buy the box because of Halo3 or because of Bioshock or whatever, and most people won't buy a system just because of one title. However if you did a survey and asked which title most influenced purchases of consoles I have no doubt you'd find that it tracks that better selling games sell more systems.

Yours can be just as anecdotal.

The point is not how many boxes does one title move alone. The point is how many boxes does a group of titles and price move. I did not claim any of the multiplatform games I mentioned sold more than Halo or Gears but the group of these games are able to move systems. You wont see the same multiplatform games on every person's home. Hardware sales due to such titles are not concentrated, they are spread. A survey may not tell me much if I isolate each multiplatform game.

Unlike a Halo or a Gears (the other titles you mentioned are very questionable). But this is not continuous and neither does it compare with how the majority of people react to a group of titles that does not include Gears or Halo3.

Besides the majority of 360 owners does not own Gears, another portion did not buy 360 for Gears despite that they have it, and another portion had a 360 before Gears was released (how many 360 were sold until November 2006?).

That gives a hint

 

[AlphaWolf]

All the reviews that I read of the PS2 as DVD player at the time, and you can still find some of those online today, stated that the PS2 was a good DVD player compared to players in its price range. I've used the PS2 as a DVD player for 5-6 years since I got one when it was released in Europe. It wasn't one of the worst dvd players ever made by far, certainly not at release. So I'd be interested to learn whether or not the US PS2 was so much worse at release.

My friend used to rent a lot of videos out of his store, when the ps2 released he had to put a sign up in his store warning people of problems playing the DVD's because 99/100 times if someone had an issue with a DVD playing, it was on a PS2. It had a crappy remote you had to pay extra for, or use the sucktastic controller controls.

The quality upgrade depends a lot on your TV. I'd argue that for 1080p owners, the difference is about the same as going from VHS to DVD. For 720p users, the difference is slightly smaller, but it is still quite impressive.

I own a 46" 1080p set, the jump in quality from vhs to DVD is staggering compared to DVD -> HD. This is not to mention all of the convenience issues that DVD brought over VHS, HD just offers slower load times for the most part.

I think it was actually the improvement in features and lack of degradation that helped DVD at least as much as the quality increase, and right now I'd argue that's the smaller difference here ... BluRay needs to make use of BD-Live and BD-J in order to benefit from this.

People need to care about those features, a lot of people just want to watch the damn movie.

However, an important difference between going from VHS to DVD and going from DVD to BluRay is that you don't need a different player for either, and your existing DVD collection even benefits from playing on the new player, and certainly the PS3 has very good playback features and excellent output (upscaling) quality.

And you can buy a remote for only $30 more, too bad the ps3 will not work with your universal remote.

I would argue that at $599, the PS3 didn't have a chance whatsoever to get any game out there that sold 7 / 11 million. At $399, chances for this certainly improve, so that was an important step. I think I agree with you that there aren't any titles on the immediate horizon for which you can predict similar sales, but I would also argue that it is hard to predict which game is going to sell similar quantities in the first place.

Well its hard to predict, but I'd wager there's nothing before MGS4 or KZ2 that even has a chance. Uncharted might do alright, but right now I'd say 7 million (140% of current install base) is beyond its scope.

@AlphaWolf: wasn't there a recent quote from EA that they also don't expect a single platform until about 15 years from now? That's still three console cycles away.

What they want vs. what they expect.

I think there are two important factors that are being underrepresented in discussions though, on both ends of the scale:

1. The "Next Playstation" Factor
I still think that people are underestimating the 'next-playstation factor'. Some people predicted this wrong initially, because they assumed it would also be selling well 'at any price'. This is obviously not true, 599 is too much for most people, especially those who were just looking for the next Playstation "the games machine" as opposed to the next Playstation "the multi-media device that does everything". But at 399, with the major franchises starting to release their first PS3 versions, it becomes relevant again.

Most of the 100 million people who bought ps2s bought them at $199 or less. I know I'm in no rush to replace my ps2 which is doing a fine job of holding down a stack of paper.

2. The Regional Factor
The 360 is an American product. For the same reason that it does abysmally in Japan, this is what is going to push the 360 forward in the U.S. Already the original Xbox sold twice as well in the U.S. as in Europe and reached 2/3rds of its installbase in the U.S. alone. I think that initially the 360 will win the US, and the PS3 will win Japan and Europe. How this evens out in the long run, I don't know, but right now I feel that the PS3 will have significantly longer legs than either of the two others.

Most non-japanese products do not do well in Japan. The NA american market isn't nearly so fickle.

 

[AlphaWolf]

If we isolate these titles no they dont do much difference. But the PS2 came with all the PS1 smash hits plus all the third party multiplatform games you could wish for

After it got a huge install base yes, it shipped with like 6 titles.

The problem is that you have the impression that Pro Evolution, Colin McRae, NFS, and so many other games that existed for more than a decade are not popular. They are very popular. And no these games are not like "dance dance revolution" either which is not of mass appeal.

You confuse popularity with critically acclaimed titles.

It's not rocket science here, the assumption that heavily marketed well reviewed titles are only picked up as an afterthought is silly.

Yours can be just as anecdotal.

I have sales figures backing me up.

The point is not how many boxes does one title move alone. The point is how many boxes does a group of titles and price move. I did not claim any of the multiplatform games I mentioned sold more than Halo or Gears but the group of these games are able to move systems. You wont see the same multiplatform games on every person's home. Hardware sales due to such titles are not concentrated, they are spread. A survey may not tell me much if I isolate each multiplatform game.

It's not just the title its the hype and advertising surrounding the title.

Unlike a Halo or a Gears (the other titles you mentioned are very questionable). But this is not continuous and neither does it compare with how the majority of people react to a group of titles that does not include Gears or Halo3.

Well pgr and forza2 would be more in the range of titles you mentioned, it just sells a bit better. Pro Evo I don't know about, thats not a NA game, I'm sure its on shelves here, but I've seen nary an ad for it.

Besides the majority of 360 owners does not own Gears, another portion did not buy 360 for Gears despite that they have it, and another portion had a 360 before Gears was released (how many 360 were sold until November 2006?).

That gives a hint

More people own gears and halo than any 10 of the games you mentioned. Gears and Halo have sold to 1/3 to 1/2 of the 360 user base.

If what you want to say is that the PS3 will benefit more from 100 average titles than just MGS and KZ2, I'd agree with that, but saying that a few of these average selling titles are more important than those 2 is just ridiculous and so far you've failed to provide (non-anecdotal) evidence to back up your claim, until you can, I'm done with it.

 

[-tkf-]

My friend used to rent a lot of videos out of his store, when the ps2 released he had to put a sign up in his store warning people of problems playing the DVD's because 99/100 times if someone had an issue with a DVD playing, it was on a PS2. It had a crappy remote you had to pay extra for, or use the sucktastic controller controls.

Fun sidenote, the PS2 was one of many DVD players that didn´t play all titles perfectly or sometimes not at all. This had the result that anyone releasing a DVD would test it on a PS2 to make sure it worked (i know we did). Considering the Huffing and Puffing from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray supporters about broken playback it´s like they forgot the past

That being said it was real steal at the price.

 

[Rockster]

Just so I am clear, moving forward there are two models, 40GB at 399 and 80GB at 499. Is it correct to say the 20GB and 60GB's are no more? What are the other differences between the two? Thanks.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

20 and 60 are officially discontinued, but you'll probably find some sitting on shelves somewhere. The 80GB model is the EU motherboard, with some smaller processors and the removal of the Emotion Engine, affecting BC. The 40GB model is pretty much certain to be 65nm, running cooler and quieter, but without any BC and with 2 USB ports axed, and no card readers.

 

[SugarCoat]

Halo3 and Gears probably yes. The others you dont know. And 2 games alone dont do the difference. MGS2 and GTA3 alone didnt sell the PS2. It was a total of certain games exclusives and they were too many.

Oddly enough GTA3 is what sold me on a PS2, and im sure there are many others who can say the same. All i ended up playing was GTA, MGS2, Silent Hill 2, Twisted Metal Black and trying the failure that was Socom (couldnt find any enjoyment in it with a controller) before i dumped the system and the games to a friend. It was the prospect of playing that 1 title that pushed me over the edge though, and i think a lot of others would say the same about their console purchases.

20 and 60 are officially discontinued, but you'll probably find some sitting on shelves somewhere.

Oh i'd say it goes a little bit beyond just a few units sitting on shelves. Gamestop is still offering the 20GB and they had 60GB on their site until a few days ago as well, which im sure will return. There seems to be a very healthy large stock of 20 and 60gb's still feeding the retail chains.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It was Champions of Norrath that sold me on a PS2 - a niche title by mainstream gamers standards. For others it's been Singstar, or one of the many other titles. GTA3 didn't sell 120 million units on it's own - it could at best have sold to about 10% of that, assuming everyone who bought GTA3 bought a PS2 specifically to play it and didn't own one already or care to play other games when making their purchasing decision. Which is Nesh's point. Very few games are strong enough to sell the console. If all your console had was one game, you'd never sell more than, in the very best case situation, 20 million consoles. For most games that'd be more like 2 million if you're lucky. If XB1 only had Halo, would it have sold 25 million boxes? Would it even have sold 8 million?

Major titles will be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back, but you need lots of other, lighter straws to make that final straw have its affect.

 

[patsu]

Some may be refurbed though. I went through 1 refurbed one when BestBuy tried to fulfill their extended store warranty for me. I promptly returned it the next day and demand a new 60Gb.

If they haven't sold off their 20Gb yet, then I expect them to do some clearance after Christmas

 

[SugarCoat]

Some may be refurbed though. I went through 1 refurbed one when BestBuy tried to fulfill their extended store warranty for me. I promptly returned it the next day and demand a new 60Gb.

If they haven't sold off their 20Gb yet, then I expect them to do some clearance after Christmas

if they're refurb, they say refurb in the title and also USED next to the price. Point being they've still got plenty of units to sell of the 20gb to be offering it that way this long after they discontinued it, so its safe to say we'll see the 60gb around in a very real way for quite awhile as well since that was produced in even larger quantities. I'd bet on it unless Sony bought them back in trade for new units.

 

[patsu]

if they're refurb, they say refurb in the title and also USED next to the price. Point being they've still got plenty of units to sell of the 20gb to be offering it that way this long after they discontinued it, so its safe to say we'll see the 60gb around in a very real way for quite awhile as well since that was produced in even larger quantities. I'd bet on it unless Sony bought them back in trade for new units.

Do they really have plenty ? I did a 200 mile radius/diameter search around my area but all of them showed 0 unit. You probably have better luck elsewhere (I'm in Northern CA).

As for waiting for Sony buying them back... I suppose so if they do stock balancing.

 

[Acert93]

er um, but according to npd ~19% of ps3 owners brought madden yet only ~14% of xb360 brought it

err umm but nothing--the sales percentages you posted are worthless.

Last months NPD thread has details demonstrating that sales aren't linear to platform growth for titles like Madden and NCAA. This is due to a number of factors like software purchasing trends of early adopters versus stragglers as well as how sports gamers fit into the market. Just look at Madden:

August 2006
Xbox 360 Units (NA): 2.41M (NPD)
Madden NFL 2007: 575K (NPD; Aug. sales)
Sell Through: 23.9%

August 2007
Xbox 360 Units (NA): 6.23M (NPD)
Madden NFL 2008: 897K (NPD; Aug. sales)
Sell Through: 14.4%

Change in Sell Through: -60%

360 teh doomed! PS3 owners buy Madden better! Madden 360 sales see a drastic 60% drop in customer sell through!

And less dramatic, and equally wrong, the Xbox 360 saw 259% growth between August 2006 and 2007 in NA, but Madden sales saw "only" saw a 156% increase.

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

Where these numbers are most telling is how it relates to PS2 Madden sales. In August 2006, Madden on the PS2 sold 1M units in August. This August they dropped to 643K and Madden 360 nearly topped 900K. Clearly the 360 version of Madden has captured significant mindshare previously not realized on the Xbox platform.

But like I pointed out in the previous NPD threads, it isn't so cut and dry. I noted that the PS2 had strong residual sales, especially among casuals and holiday shopped (e.g. 1M in August 2006 but 2.8M in CY2006 on the PS2; the 360 was 575K and 1.1M, respectively, in 2006). This general theme is holding true as the PS2 version of Madden sold very well in September with a more significant drop off of the 360 version (205K PS2, 173K 360).

Long story short, I could have just posted Xbox Madden sales compared to PS2 Madden sales, based on percentages, and it makes the same point: Pure sales rations relating to install base numbers don't say much at all.

Seeing Xbox 360 sales numbers spike 100K units in August (over July) and Madden sales jump 322K units over 2006 (897K-575K) is indicative of my point: The 360 features had a market impact. A huge percentage of those 300K+ PS2 August sales shifted to the 360. Think about that:

PS2 Madden dropped from 1M to 643K = -357K
360 Madden rose from 575K to 897K = +322K

And from a market perspective, the 360 growth alone nearly matched total PS3 August Madden sales (336K). And as you pointed out a larger percentage of PS3 owners picked up Madden in August meaning there is a smaller remainging pool of potential customers (likewise 360 versus PS2).

 

[Acert93]

Both are just as important. One shows how much revenue they are getting in absolutes from each. The other provides information about the consumer and shows the trend on both consoles. It measures general interest on both and it is around the same, It shows that gamers probably do not prefer one version over the other although the PS3 may be a bit worse.
It also shows that sports fan gamers move almost proportionately from one console to the other. Both may be having the same percentages of sports fans.

I don't think that is true. e.g. The Xbox had a higher percentage of sports fans than the PS2, but substantially less sales (if we are looking at percentages). Having a higher percentage isn't notable unless (a) it is high enough to support a port, and in rare situations (b) generates higher total sales on a smaller install base. Put another way, if a console with 1M units has a 50% adoption is still "only" 500K units, whereas a 10% adoption on a 100M unit platform is 10M units. While not quite as drastic, the Xbox did see some situations where it had 2x the adoption rate of the PS2--but was still dwarded in sales.

Just looking at last year, in August 2006 Madden NFL 2007 (360) sold 575K units on an install base of 2.4M units in NA. 23.9%.

In August 2007 Madden NFL 2008 (PS3) sold 336K units on an install base of 1.74M units in NA. 19.3%.

At similar install base sizes it would appear the 360 had a fair share higher sports fans, and as the install base has grown the percentage has dropped off substantially.

Hence why I also disagree with you saying the percentages zed posted were "just as important".

An increase of PS3 hardware sales may benefit EA at the end so they might still support it.

336K in sales is pretty good for a 1st month release. Based on the 360 data for 2006 (about 90% CY post release month sales increase) they should end up around 600K in CY2007 Madden sales and will increase even more as it hits the $30 bargin bin early in 2008. $36M in retail sales in CY2007 for PS3 Madden isn't anything to sneeze at!

Those sorts of sales should be more than enough to justify a yearly port. Further, there is a strategic reason to continue the PS3 version: PS4. Getting a good handle on Cell with the PS3 will pay dividends with the PS4.

But on the flip side the 360 has all but solidified itself as this generations "home" for Madden. A lot of the Madden events have been using the 360 version, and with the 360 surpassing PS2 release sales it seems consumers have picked it as the place to play Madden (which will continue to impact consumer selection as Madden is a very social game... a lower price point for casuals doesn't hurt either).

So expect the PS3 version to stick around--and be successful--but unless there are millions of undiscovered Madden users in the market, it does appear a lion's share of the market has been captured for this product.

 

[dobwal]

You can't measure a game impact on console sales strictly by the number of units sold. The 360, PS3 and Wii are sold more on image versus any individual big titles or franchises. But the big titles and franchises themselves are largely responsible for the image of a console. A PS2 without FF, GT, MGS, GTA or DMC sells nowhere near a 120 million consoles. It the big titles that help shape the image of a console that drive sales.

A high selling critically reviewed game may only sale 2-4 million titles but it creates thousands to millions of voices who generate noise that help push further console sales. The majority of moderately selling titles and non descript titles enjoy their level of sales because of the console and do little to help enhance the sale of a console.

The 15-20 biggest franchises on the PS2 are probably directly responsible for more consoles sales than the rest of the PS2 library (8500 titles) combined, but the numbers of console sold indirectly by the top 15-20 probably dwarfs both.