ShadowRunner
Veteran
The Racing Games Comparison Thread (GT5 & FM3) *spawn
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Does anyone else find it odd that the FM3 and GT5 demos seem to be featured on multi-monitor setups with car simulator type setups? I'm curious if anyone outside of MS, Sony, and the developers actually have the space and resources to maintain such a dedicated setup for a driving game? The geek side of me loves seeing these rigs, but I can't help but feel they're not really all that useful for the majority of the end-users.
Edited to add:
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/The-Ultimate-Racing-Wheel-for-Xbox-360.htm
And the GT5 version:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/wheels/devices/5184&cl=us,en
http://www.gamingbits.com/content/view/3510/2/
These controller wheels do sound/look nice.
Edited to add:
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/The-Ultimate-Racing-Wheel-for-Xbox-360.htm
And the GT5 version:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/wheels/devices/5184&cl=us,en
http://www.gamingbits.com/content/view/3510/2/
These controller wheels do sound/look nice.
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djskribbles
Legend
Fanatec also makes a few wheels for the PS3/PC. Fanatec wheels are relatively expensive though.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
It depends, if it's running the same engine (like I'm sure it is) than the game will run at 1280x1080 with 2xaa, but if increasing graphics quality is what polyphony want's than i doubt those extra vertical pixels will remain.
I don't get it, if both are running the same everything then polyphony could have made GT5 an expansion to GT5p. (and make all the features that GT5 has a patch to GT5p......if that's possible)
Anyways , Forza3 is not running anything of forza2, the man who was at E3 with the conquistador beard said so. :smile:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-forza-motorsport/50495
I think both games at this point aren't going to stray to far away from each other, both consoles that run these two games run at 3.2 GHz with graphics chips that are clocked at 500 MHz.....and both having 512 of memory.
The bottom line for turn 10 is that they knew they were falling behind on the polygon models in the car department and now they are surpassing a lot of developers like EA, Bizarre creations, and Codemasters.
And as for some who think forza3's paint jobs are bland, i think that's now up to the gamer to decide how much gloss and shine, airbrush ,metallic, fluorescent, or even chrome they want to use, anyways the job will look good so long as you have an eye for detail.
I think still think this comparison thread is good and should remain, for the time being we're just going to have to elaborate on what turn 10 decides to show......until they decide to make a demo.
For sure, but my point was that 'personal opinion' magically changes with the logo on the pic. It works both ways of course, green sways to blue just as easily as blue sways to green. It's human nature I guess, but it makes it impossible to get constructive feedback that has any value.
E2K said:
I've done that! Someone brings their parents over to the shop, and I whisk them away briefly to look at some graphics. It sounds goofy because it's parents, but it works well because they have zero bias, so I can get proper feedback.
I have since learned how to fool fanboys though. Two tv's side by side, PS3 next to one, 360 next to the other. Couch in front of each tv. Player on left plays with a PS3 controller and sits in front of the tv with the PS3, likewise on the right he's playing with a 360 controller and sits in front of the tv with the 360. People stand behind the couch, watch both games and pick.
What they don't know is that the guy on the left is actually looking at the tv on the right, because the PS3 is actually hooked to that one. Likewise the guy on the right is looking at the tv on the left because the 360 is really hooked to that one. They can't see the players eyes because we are standing behind the couch. The I put on some multi plat games and let them pick their favorites. Then I let them in on the secret
Sometimes they are genuinely pissed, which shows how far favoritism can go.But then we can't have photo mode fights! At least wait until FM3 is out, then it can be compared to GTP5.
...Then I let them in on the secret
Can you please videotape this for me?
A still picture can easily have visible signs of HDR rendering, for example, when there are reflections/refractions in low-reflectance/low-transmittance materials. Such reflections/refractions rendered without HDR environment maps would clip the bright areas to a gray and look quite dull.
E2K said:
joker454 said:
*Scratch head* All these exercises just prove their personal preferences. It's not objective either. You'll have to decide for yourself. Like I said, it doesn't have to be platform affiliated.
I have since learned how to fool fanboys though. Two tv's side by side, PS3 next to one, 360 next to the other. Couch in front of each tv. Player on left plays with a PS3 controller and sits in front of the tv with the PS3, likewise on the right he's playing with a 360 controller and sits in front of the tv with the 360. People stand behind the couch, watch both games and pick.
What they don't know is that the guy on the left is actually looking at the tv on the right, because the PS3 is actually hooked to that one. Likewise the guy on the right is looking at the tv on the left because the 360 is really hooked to that one. They can't see the players eyes because we are standing behind the couch. The I put on some multi plat games and let them pick their favorites. Then I let them in on the secret
They may be pissed for other reasons (e.g., because they felt betrayed, or a waste of time). Sometimes informal tests are not insightful. e.g., Comparing KZ2 with Fable II is like comparing "Saving Private Ryans" with "Narnia". Most people will pick the latter for prettiness. However, it may be missing the point altogether. The goal of a war movie/game is not to present a beautiful scenary to begin with -- unless they want to show a before-after comparison.
Heh ... my photo mode can beat up your photo mode!
You can disagree if you like ... but I'll fight you over it!
No need to scratch ones head, they are *extremely* useful for determining what degradations stand out more than others. If I let a fanboy tell me, then they won't critique the platform of their choice even if I'm running Yars Revenge on it. 'Their version' in their mind will still be better than the 'other version' no matter what, even if I ripped out half of the shader functionality on 'their version', halved the frame rate and swapped all reds and blues.
Parents on the other hand have no clue, they just look and honestly tell me what they don't like on one compared to another. There is just the added step of decoding what they say to what it means in the tech. "That one flickers a lot". Hmm flickers, ok. I don't see any flickering so I have no clue what they are talking about. What does flickering mean? Eventually that was deduced to lack of msaa on one of the versions. Cool, of all the differences, lack of msaa stood out the most, noted. They did not notice that the fur shader on one had a few less layers than the fur shader on the other, cool. And so on. That kind of info is impossible to get here on a forum, or in person with fanboys because I know they will be trying their hardest to ignore flaws on 'their version' and find flaws in 'the other version'. Therefore, it's useless information.
You are over thinking it, they are pissed because they were caught with bias and their friends now laugh and pick on them. Comparing KZ2 to Fable 2 (which I've also done) is also extremely useful. It's a smack across the head reminder to the tech leads that victory is not achieved via pdf specs, but by a combination of tech and art design. Some devs don't listen, so a sharp lesson learned via multple noob focus groups can be very enlightening.
I absolutely love parents focus groups. There is nothing one can complain about them. "Yeah but he had a Microsoft bias". Nope, they are just noob parents, they have no clue. "They don't get the tech". So? Neither do millions of other players out there, do we discount all of their opinions? They have to face it. Dev 'A' made a degradation on version 'X' of the game, and a noob non biased parent spotted it. How can he talk his way out of that? He can't, now he needs to try fixing it if possible, or give back in one area and take away elsewhere.
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ShadowRunner
Veteran
So why do you do all these tests to prove bias? Sounds a little sad to me. Surely it is a total waste of time.
EDIT: Didnt read jokers follow up post, i understand where hes comming from now. Think when he said about parents comming into the "shop" threw me off, had vissions of some gamestop employee doing little tests with people in the store room
EDIT: Didnt read jokers follow up post, i understand where hes comming from now. Think when he said about parents comming into the "shop" threw me off, had vissions of some gamestop employee doing little tests with people in the store room
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Thought it was pretty clear from his post. It's done to reveal, and thus compensate for, the bias in focus testing.
We do it a bit differently. We run a standard PC version with xbox and ps3 controllers.
ShadowRunner
Veteran
But isnt bias only an issue when comparing games from different platforms?
The focus groups/testing aren't done to prove bias. They are done to remove bias. Single and double blind testing can be very useful tools.
You mean like when you develop a multiplatform game for example?
ShadowRunner
Veteran
Got ya. Would have thought the best way to do it would be to just not reveal the platform and use a generic pc type controller so that platform prefference doesnt even come into it.
ShadowRunner
Veteran
Yea sure i guess i underestemate how much bias people can have, didnt even think it would be an issue that needs testing for.
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