The Racing Games Comparison Thread (GT5 & FM3) *spawn

[Silent_Buddha]

Does that mean you guys like Forza 3 lighting and models more than GT?

Actually I have beefs and nitpicks with both of them. I think the shadows cast by cars on the road is more accurate in GT5 for example. At least in the in game video's shown for Forza 3, the shadows cast by the cars don't always match the shadows cast by the surroundings or even the shadows cast by other cars on the track.

On the other hand, I find the reflections on the cars far more believeable in Forza 3 compared to GT5.

Neither one has perfect visuals, and I don't particularly prefer one over the other at the moment.

Regards,
SB

 

[ShadowRunner]

Is GT5 going to be full 1080p 60fps or is it going to be the same as GT5P?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Erm i mite be wrong but reading through the thread from the sidelines i dont think anyone has really been over deffensive, if anything i thing some have been overly offensive.

I dont think anyone has been saying there is no competition. People just have different opinions on what looks best but people are all to quik to shout bias when someones opinion differs to thier own.

I think part of that is because there seems to be quite a few fans of GT5 that are quick to proclaim "bullshot" or some other perjorative for the other game, but are perfectly fine with it when their game does it.

After all GT5 is perfectly capable of recreating those PR shots but F3 isn't. BTW - that isn't referring to you or anyone in particular, just a general feeling I got when people regularly went into the F3 thread to make sure bullshot was called at least once or twice a page.

Regards,
SB

 

[betan]

why would I bother feeding this fire of partisanship.

Ignore the partisanship and lack of tech discussion for a second, your claim made me curious, and want to try to check its validity.

It's obvious that now that F3 has closed the graphical gap on GT that some are defensive.

May very well be the case, but than again it would be half of the story.

So now that the gap is closed, maybe when the defensiveness gives way to resignation that there is competition, the other factors of each game can be considered rather than blindly assigning "the champion" status.

Some may argue this is actually being defensive.

Anyway, at least we know now you think the gap is closed. All good.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I thought comparison threads wheren't allowed. (This is a vs thread after all).

Generally they're avoided. However, there are smart, mature people who who'd appreciate a decent comparison of these very similar titles. think of it as a buyer's guide - "I want a football game. Should I get FIFA or PES?"

This thread exists for people to have a smart discussion about the different approaches and similarities of these two racers.

 

[Tap In]

Anyway, at least we know now you think the gap is closed. All good.

well seriously, all of you post dissecting apart, who can NOT see that the Gap has now closed?

I didn't proclaim which was better but to ignore the advancements made is disingenuous for this forum. Maybe not on some other forums but certainly for this one.

 

[ShadowRunner]

well seriously, all of you post dissecting apart, who can NOT see that the Gap has now closed?

I didn't proclaim which was better but to ignore the advancements made is disingenuous for this forum. Maybe not on some other forums but certainly for this one.

Nobody is ignoring the advancements made. Its clear to see FM3 looks great but when you get down to wich is better it is totally subjective. Even on a technical level it is subjective for example how much does the resolution or level of aa and tradeoffs to achieve them matter, the weight of each difference will depend on the individual.

 

[Tap In]

Nobody is ignoring the advancements made.

I trust that you are not ignoring it but perhaps you were not following all of the threads leading up to this one.

Anyway... I'm DONE discussing the partisanship here because it is just as distracting as the those other threads and does not get us any closer to the true discussion that Shifty so generously has given us the leeway for.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Generally they're avoided. However, there are smart, mature people who who'd appreciate a decent comparison of these very similar titles. think of it as a buyer's guide - "I want a football game. Should I get FIFA or PES?"

This thread exists for people to have a smart discussion about the different approaches and similarities of these two racers.

Do you see a smart\mature discussion about the titles in this thread? All i see is lots of trolls, and people arguing about what shiny effect is more real without any other arguments except for personal opinion.2 flagship titles on 2 different consoles. That alone will spawn a lot of worthless crap.

I would welcome comparison threads to be allowed on B3D, its just that without the proper guidance, such threads will allways turn into some kind of "war".

Further, The titles aren't out yet. There is no demo of FM3. There is no intelligent discussion to be had, its just a bunch of fanboys getting off on eachother by looking at photomode and work in progress pictures. You cannot dicuss gameplay, nobody here has played FM3!!

Now, if the discussion was at an actual technological level,discussing graphical implementation or whatever, this would be different, but without having this specified in the opening post on the thread, this is pretty much the same level of discussion as can be found on GameFAQs.. All you have now is a thread that serves as a magnet for trolls.

A Fifa or PES buyers guide would be different, as your likely to discuss actual gameplay, not screenshots. Also, no platform vs platform, so that instantly cuts down the amount of trolls and fanboy posts that are going to be made by a lot (only the fifa and pes fanboys will argue, but that is bound to happend for any comparison)

 

[RobertR1]

I trust that you are not ignoring it but perhaps you were not following all of the threads leading up to this one.

Anyway... I'm DONE discussing the partisanship here because it is just as distracting as the those other threads and does not get us any closer to the true discussion that Shifty so generously has given us the leeway for.

I'm glad this thread exits as long as it becomes a funnel for trolling instead of the official threads.

 

[joker454]

Waste of time guys without blind tests. Otherwise the obvious people will make the obvious choices every time. We've seen this many times before, version 'X' picked as looking better than version 'Y', even though guys like me and other devs on this forum know darned well that's impossible because we've seen the pix/gpad grabs, we've seen the shaders, we know the people that made the games, and we know damn well that version 'X' is not better than version 'Y'. But put a console or game name on a picture and poof, peoples choices are made. If people can see less as more on the different versions of the same game, it will be impossible to get an unbiased opinion on competing games. Never going to happen without screen pics that are not identifiable as belonging to one game or the other.

Someone should post pictures and randomly mix up the game logos on the pics. Put GT on some, Forza on the other, although that may not be where they are from. Pick some pictures that aren't well known or easily identifiable as being from one game or the other. The see what happens. Hint, I've tried that in the past, it's amazing how easy it is to manipulate peoples 'favorites' I would wager that if the product logos were flipped on those first two Ferrari pics (the white and red one) that opinions on the favorite would have changed dramatically.

 

[RobertR1]

Waste of time guys without blind tests. Otherwise the obvious people will make the obvious choices every time. We've seen this many times before, version 'X' picked as looking better than version 'Y', even though guys like me and other devs on this forum know darned well that's impossible because we've seen the pix/gpad grabs, we've seen the shaders, we know the people that made the games, and we know damn well that version 'X' is not better than version 'Y'. But put a console or game name on a picture and poof, peoples choices are made. If people can see less as more on the different versions of the same game, it will be impossible to get an unbiased opinion on competing games. Never going to happen without screen pics that are not identifiable as belonging to one game or the other.

Someone should post pictures and randomly mix up the game logos on the pics. Put GT on some, Forza on the other, although that may not be where they are from. Pick some pictures that aren't well known or easily identifiable as being from one game or the other. The see what happens. Hint, I've tried that in the past, it's amazing how easy it is to manipulate peoples 'favorites' I would wager that if the product logos were flipped on those first two Ferrari pics (the white and red one) that opinions on the favorite would have changed dramatically.

Crows would become an endangered species

 

[Iron Tiger]

well seriously, all of you post dissecting apart, who can NOT see that the Gap has now closed?

I can't. I turn on GT5P and I'm thoroughly stunned at what I see. I'm not impressed with Forza 3 unless I'm looking at extreme closeups on the cars in photomode where I can appreciate the liberal use of polygons that make up all their curvy surfaces.

It was the same way with Forza 1 and GT4, where Forza 1 might be pushing loads more bullet point effects, but GT4 still had the more convincing visuals. I'd take GT4's shimmery road textures over Forza's mip-mapped, bilinear filtered textures that were so blurry you couldn't make out any detail beyond 10 feet in front of the camera.

Forza 3 may have sharper and more accurate reflections of its environment wrapped around its cars than GT5, but when the environment looks so cartoony, it's hardly worth the workload in the end.

We really don't know what the technical gaps are, and even when we do, it still all comes down to personal preference.

 

[ShadowRunner]

We've seen this many times before, version 'X' picked as looking better than version 'Y', even though guys like me and other devs on this forum know darned well that's impossible because we've seen the pix/gpad grabs, we've seen the shaders, we know the people that made the games, and we know damn well that version 'X' is not better than version 'Y'.

Hmmm not a big believer in personal prefference are you? That 3D dot heroes game is one of the most beautiful games i have seen this gen even though it may be technically inferior to some of the ugliest.

 

[Neb]

Dunno about F3 evironments looking that cartoony or even that. Also GT5p environments aint all that either..

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gt5p_demo_captures-5372_en.html

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Hmmm not a big believer in personal prefference are you? That 3D dot heroes game is one of the most beautiful games i have seen this gen even though it may be technically inferior to some of the ugliest.

I think you didn't quite get what he's saying.

He basically said that if you switched logo's on pictures randomly that...

Everyone that is biased towards PS3/GT will always pick the picture labeled GT5.

Everyone that is biased towards X360/F3 will always pick the picture labeled F3.

And I would agree with him. The PR shots for both games are so close that without the product labels it would be quite easy to mistake one for the other.

Regards,
SB

 

[ShadowRunner]

I think you didn't quite get what he's saying.

He basically said that if you switched logo's on pictures randomly that...

Everyone that is biased towards PS3/GT will always pick the picture labeled GT5.

Everyone that is biased towards X360/F3 will always pick the picture labeled F3.

And I would agree with him. The PR shots for both games are so close that without the product labels it would be quite easy to mistake one for the other.

Regards,
SB

Yes of course, such is the nature of bias. The thing is what the hell does it matter

Joker is saying that by seeing games from behind the scenes and looking at the tech you can tell which one looks best. Im saying it is still down to personal prefference.

In-game GT and Forza definately have a different look about them and so there is always going to be a difference in opinion. There is no rite or wrong.

 

[Acert93]

That's funny, I was thinknig the opposite. We know what GT5 will look and play like, we have a rather large demo. As for FM3, all we have are some photo mode shots. How does FM3 look during game play, how does the frame rate hold up, do you know these things? Did I miss a demo?

1. There is quite a bit of video (replays, off screen gameplay, etc) online. Check them out. Last time I checked you didn't need a 60fps 720p direct feed of gameplay to get a sense for the general direction of improvements of a title.

2. Per Arwin, patsu, et al you have *no clue* what GT5 looks like, will play like, or what features the final version will have... get with them if you disagree with this statement because they have posted this over and over again. Release date, which cars will have damage, which will have interiors, various gameplay mode details, etc will be deployed in the retail version of GT5 are unknown to a large degree. As we continue hearing: GT5P != GT5.

Waste of time guys without blind tests. Otherwise the obvious people will make the obvious choices every time.

There is room for personal opinion, but yes it is difficult to categorically say which looks better. Art is very subjective and different from technicals. Asking a forum which game looks better ...

What I find more interesting is very advanced games that look baaaad

 

[E2K]

The only way to see which looks the best is to ask your wife/partner/parents.

I have both xbox 360 and ps3 (I can supply pictures if needed), actually I am selling the ps3 this week (to get a slim) but that is not the subject.
I can see that GT5 gameplay looks more 'real', i.e. like a video of cars driving, than Forza3, that has got nothing to do with the console it's on.

A 'fan' however will also see this, but! he will argue like this (in his head)
"well, gt5 may look more real, but in forza3 you can paint on your car! that is more real than not be able to paint on cars. also forza has tires that flex when in closeup in a replay, so all in all, forza3 IS more realistic, anybody who thinks otherwise is a ps3 fanboy!".

The way they are now, I can objectively say that overall GT5 realtime even beats Forza3 photomode by a long shot.
Your parents would also say that. People do not judge how real a game looks based on how 'round' the 'wheel-holes' are or if you can see the polygons. They look at the global picture: how everything moves, and how it looks: the light; reflections, etcetera. I would like to see some forza3 pictures if somebody thinks otherwise.

Btw turn 10 is a good developer, even though there were a little bit cocky saying that forza3 would be the biggest racing game ever: GT5 will have more cars than forza 1, forza 2 and forza 3 combined[/] Still, they have guts and good faith in their product saying that, so still I respect it

 

[2real4tv]

So we are doing blind tests on Photomodes shots