The Racing Games Comparison Thread (GT5 & FM3) *spawn

[COPS N RAPPERS]

And that is why I really doubt that its true, cause tbh thats a bit too high for actual poly count. [Tiling is different case altogether]

Can't 360 do up to 500 million pollygons.......ok, so what's 800,000 to 1 mill going to do to it.

360's got a 48 shader array architecture settep, it's got plenty of shadders to work with vertices.

Hey if an ATI Radeon X1600 (which is half of 360's chip) could do all that in realtime, then i don't see how forza3's vehicles being a myth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsj-65JpTaU&feature=related

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Hey if an ATI Radeon X1600 (which is half of 360's chip) could do all that in realtime, then i don't see how forza3's vehicles being a myth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsj-65JpTaU&feature=related[/QUOTE]

And yes an X1600 can do that, i had one in my pc long ago, and it ran that demo at 720p, 30 fps.

.......sh#t i miss that demo, i traded my ATI chip for a G-force, and everytime i load that demo it keeps telling me i need an ATI chip

..........for ALL of ATI's sweet demos i need an ATI chip.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Posts moved from the FM3 game thread. Now that we have a proper comparison thread, we can move all the pollution here and stop fouling up game thread with off-topic comparisons.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The GT5 shot looks weird, look at the front to rear rake angle. It also looks like a R/C car.

This is due to the excessive DOF effect. See here. Like early bloom, new effects get used to excess, to the detriment of the of the image.

 

[Neb]

I think Forza 3 has up to 400.000 polys in their car-models (based on what Turn10 themselves said). When rendering in photomode, they may well also use Tesselation, but with 400.000 polys they may not need to. We know from PD that GT5 uses about 200.000 polys on their cars, which are almost equally divided over the interior and exterior. So it may well be that in photo mode you may be able to find some differences reflecting this.

I would add that it seems GT5(P) has higher poly model in selection stage and replays than in racing which I assume is also true for F3. Also "photomode" reveals much more curved surfaces for F3 in upclose images where rims are exemplary round but GT5 sports hard edges. However kinda worthless comparing "photomode" visuals as I think reality would have teached people how PR shots fared vs ingame in GT5p... large difference for the worse. Same will happen with F3.

 

[Neb]

Posts moved from the FM3 game thread. Now that we have a proper comparison thread, we can move all the pollution here and stop fouling up game thread with off-topic comparisons.

So far what is the rad value?

 

[AlNom]

Thanks Shifty.

So far what is the rad value?

Xbox 2*pi radian was probably not a good marketing name.

I would add that it seems GT5(P) has higher poly model in selection stage and replays than in racing which I assume is also true for F3

Actually, I've seen a couple shots released from FIII that indicate varying levels of geometry LOD despite being photomode. (Same car, different polycount due to different distances...). It'd indicate they are using the in-game assets.

 

[Nesh]

Rearview mirror is lacking selfshadowing! God fails!

hahahahahahahahahaahahahaha

 

[Neb]

Xbox 2*pi radian was probably not a good marketing name.

XD

Actually, I've seen a couple shots released from FIII that indicate varying levels of geometry LOD despite being photomode. (Same car, different polycount)

Yes I saw that to with the car backlight looking like F2. Perhaps that was a LOD bug as it was so close to camera.

 

[Arwin]

At least there's pitch black darkness underneath the car, that's being realistic.




There's forza2 for you all, NOW GET TO IT!!

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_forza_motorsport_2_q_a_images-6198_en.html

lol, they don't look no lesser than 80 to 90,000 pollygons......maybe even 100.:smile:

Well those are from Forza2's photomode also.

10 times either one and you get, 800, 900, to 1,000,000, each car.

so in essence forza3's 8 cars is like racing with 20 to 25 of GT5's cars.

Except that from what I've seen so far in gameplay videos, the cars in Forza3 don't look anything like they do in Photomode. I'll be glad if we see 40.000 per car in-game on average to be honest and there will be a whole lot of LODing going on too. All impressions I've seen so far seem to confirm this, suggesting that GT5 still clearly looks better in-game. So I'm hoping you're just being funny. The biggest handicap that Forza 3 has (which is of course also its strength) is the amount of customisation you can do in terms of custom paintjobs and such. Sacrifices have to be made in order to allow this functionality. Also I don't believe that the 360 has the raw power needed to do reflections and lighting as well as the PS3, and from what I've seen so far (stuff at gamescom) that seems to hold. But we'll see - it's as much down to clever programming as anything else, but given the same level of programming, the PS3 should edge ahead here. Who knows that Forza may be able to use the Tesselation unit in-game and make the car models look smoother, but that will then definitely go at the cost of the quality of lighting and such.

Anyway, the game will be out soon enough, so we can all see for ourselves.

@Nebula: yes, that's quite likely, though don't forget also that in GT5 Prologue, the car selection screen is full 1920x1080p, whereas in-game that drops back to 1280x1080p, at least if you run the game on a Full HD set of course. So that would have a small impact on the quality as well.

I think the different photo-modes are going to be a crazy fest of camera options. Already GT4 had a wide variety of things you could setup in photomode.

Actually, I've seen a couple shots released from FIII that indicate varying levels of geometry LOD despite being photomode. (Same car, different polycount due to different distances...). It'd indicate they are using the in-game assets.

It's complicated, yeah. There have been some screenshots released from the photo-mode screen itself for instance, so before the additional processing, I read on neogaf. And I've seen new shots where they actually took some criticism from the gaf thread to heart (e.g. fix the wrong level of brightness / contrast in the shaders of the transparent glass/plastic surrounding head and taillights - red brake lights for instance would end up pink too often)

 

[Nesh]

personally I think that GT5 still has a bit better lighting and reflections. Even in the two particular images posted GT5 looks more "believable" and convincing. FZ3 looks like a game

 

[patsu]

Just put the real car images beside the rendered ones and see for yourself.

 

[TheWretched]

I have seen both GT5 and Forza 3 running in realtime at Gamescom (FM3 with the 3 panel setup, where one 360 RRODed^^).

I can't explain why, but to me, GT5 had more natural lighting. FM3 looked more "cartoony" (not in a literal sense, but from the colors). Hard to explain for me^^

 

[nightshade]

I have seen both GT5 and Forza 3 running in realtime at Gamescom (FM3 with the 3 panel setup, where one 360 RRODed^^).

I can't explain why, but to me, GT5 had more natural lighting. FM3 looked more "cartoony" (not in a literal sense, but from the colors). Hard to explain for me^^

I understand what you wanna say

 

[Arwin]

and also pointed out the emblem on the side of GT5's car. (it's a texture)

I booted up Prologue again to check on the 599's logo on the side, and it's not just a flat texture - it's just like it should be. In fact, the reflectiveness of the Forza model might be off, and it might be placed outwards a little too much, if I compare it to the real thing. Your impressions may vary, but I don't see much of a problem, to be honest.

 

[Iron Tiger]

This is due to the excessive DOF effect. See here. Like early bloom, new effects get used to excess, to the detriment of the of the image.

The rear passenger-side tire is on a higher elevation than the other 3, shifting weight onto the front drivers-side, that's why that corner looks so low and the back looks so high.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, I concur. The optical effect is something different though. It's worth following the link just to see how convincingly a real photo can be turned into a model photo!

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Well those are from Forza2's photomode also.



Except that from what I've seen so far in gameplay videos, the cars in Forza3 don't look anything like they do in Photomode. I'll be glad if we see 40.000 per car in-game on average to be honest and there will be a whole lot of LODing going on too. All impressions I've seen so far seem to confirm this, suggesting that GT5 still clearly looks better in-game. So I'm hoping you're just being funny. The biggest handicap that Forza 3 has (which is of course also its strength) is the amount of customisation you can do in terms of custom paintjobs and such. Sacrifices have to be made in order to allow this functionality. Also I don't believe that the 360 has the raw power needed to do reflections and lighting as well as the PS3, and from what I've seen so far (stuff at gamescom) that seems to hold. But we'll see - it's as much down to clever programming as anything else, but given the same level of programming, the PS3 should edge ahead here. Who knows that Forza may be able to use the Tesselation unit in-game and make the car models look smoother, but that will then definitely go at the cost of the quality of lighting and such.

It's complicated, yeah. There have been some screenshots released from the photo-mode screen itself for instance, so before the additional processing, I read on neogaf. And I've seen new shots where they actually took some criticism from the gaf thread to heart (e.g. fix the wrong level of brightness / contrast in the shaders of the transparent glass/plastic surrounding head and taillights - red brake lights for instance would end up pink too often)

Well, here's a in-game Forza2 shot taken from the game. (none photo mode)

http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_forza_motorsport_2-5254-9.html

and here's the footage that it was taken from, honestly speeking it's been well over a year since i played forza2, but i'm certan the game's polly count was at least 80k, the cars had curves and the tiers on those cars were pretty round and the rims on them were fully modeled with disc brakes behind them.

http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_forza_motorsport_2-7186-6.html

...........I wish i had the game now, i could download the demo and but i don't have a capture card to grab pics.

personally I think that GT5 still has a bit better lighting and reflections. Even in the two particular images posted GT5 looks more "believable" and convincing. FZ3 looks like a game

About lighting, forza3's is HDR, does GT5 have HDR?

The tint of the game seems to be very realistic but does the lighting change when you stare up at the sun, or does it change when you're inside of the car?

 

[Iron Tiger]

About lighting, forza3's is HDR, does GT5 have HDR?

The tint of the game seems to be very realistic but does the lighting change when you stare up at the sun, or does it change when you're inside of the car?

Yes it does. The tone mapping is great when you come out of the tunnel on the Eiger Nordwand track.

 

[Nesh]

About lighting, forza3's is HDR, does GT5 have HDR?

The tint of the game seems to be very realistic but does the lighting change when you stare up at the sun, or does it change when you're inside of the car?

Not sure. Regardless the lighting looks more convincing in GT than it does in Forza. And for a title of that kind unrealistic light sticks out like a sore thumb