The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

[assurdum]

Really? Isn't QAA just MSAA + blur filter?

Not work exactly in those terms... it's more complex than a blur filter... however the AA it's a 'blur filter' even in MSAA... the QAA is the 'msaa' old version of nvindia AA... but I can't explain better...

 

[Ruskie]

Was Assassins Creed Brotherhood lead platform ps3 or was that just PR?

 

[Trejser]

Looks like it was lead platform.

I like this comment:

"At the end of ACII we realised that the PS3 was sort of an afterthought – or, not that it was an afterthought, but we hadn't fully debugged it until the very end, and we had a bunch of frame rate issues and quality issues. This time around we knew that, because we went through it once, so we decided to attack it from the beginning and I think the final product is much more on the level, and even on some parts, the frame rate is probably sometimes better on the PS3 than it is on 360."

 

[MJP]

This question is mostly directed to the developers here, though I'd love to read anyone's opinion on this...

I've read plenty of talk here about the disadvantages multi-platform developers face, but a friend who's a dev once said that multiplatform development also has one positive side, you may be more willing to do or push a system in directions you may not have originally thought if you were developing exclusively on said system. He used the development of games on the ps2 and xbox for example, stating that developers may not have thought to try games like Splinter cell on the ps2 if it weren't for the xbox. He used other games but I can't think at the moment.

We had this conversation during the beginning of this generation, before the ps3 even launched, so I'm not sure if this point still holds water today with the ps3 and 360. Sorry if I explained it poorly, it was a long time ago but made sense when we were talking. Anyways, assuming his point still has some merit, any thoughts on the technical benefits of multi-platform development?

If nothing else it forces you to be diligent about letting hardware-specific details leak across your abstractions, and to allow some flexibility in your engine + tools for dealing with different hardware targets. Both of which make your life a whole lot easier when you need to add a new platform to the list.

 

[MJP]

The QAA is more simple to add on the ps3 than the msaa.

Huh? Implementing QAA is done exactly the same way as 2xMSAA or 4xMSAA. It's just a different filter for resolving the subsamples after you're finished rendering to a render target.

 

[bkilian]

AC:B coparison: http://www.lensoftruth.com/?p=24367

Looks like they finally fixed PS3 versions performance

About textures:

- Textures are the same and QAA is making the difference (like in AC2)

or

- Textures are indeed better on 360?

There are a couple of things going on there, one of them is that they have not normalised the gamma curves. That makes the 360 version look darker and more contrasty, which brings out the texture and makes it look like a higher resolution or better shadowing. In reality, while I think there is some blurring from QAA, I'd say the texture quality is largely the same.

 

[Trejser]

Thanks

 

[Mastperf]

Congratulations to Ubi. Mission accomplished, one of the best multiplatform game judging the video and the analysis but what the hell of talking about lens of truth when talking of more dynamic light or shadows in the 360? It seems pretty identical in everything. Uh wait, maybe he talking about the rainbow in the church, but honestly seem a pretty 'tie' to me & I'm very happy to see no difference.

How can you get "tie" out of that comparison? Is there any category where the PS3 version won?

 

[jlippo]

There are a couple of things going on there, one of them is that they have not normalised the gamma curves. That makes the 360 version look darker and more contrasty, which brings out the texture and makes it look like a higher resolution or better shadowing. In reality, while I think there is some blurring from QAA, I'd say the texture quality is largely the same.

Pretty much what I tought when seeing the images.
Is it really that hard to fix the gamma or something that they simply have overlooked again and again?

 

[ultragpu]

Congratulations to Ubi. Mission accomplished, one of the best multiplatform game judging the video and the analysis but what the hell of talking about lens of truth when talking of more dynamic light or shadows in the 360? It seems pretty identical in everything. Uh wait, maybe he talking about the rainbow in the church, but honestly seem a pretty 'tie' to me & I'm very happy to see no difference.

I would hardly call that parity, in fact it's much worse than the previous installment AC2. Missing lighting, shadows, and lower res textures dictate the ps3 version is far worse. I'm very disappointed in Ubi since they promised a much more improved effort this time, yet they not only failed to do so in the final product, the difference becomes even bigger.

 

[TheWretched]

There are a couple of things going on there, one of them is that they have not normalised the gamma curves. That makes the 360 version look darker and more contrasty, which brings out the texture and makes it look like a higher resolution or better shadowing. In reality, while I think there is some blurring from QAA, I'd say the texture quality is largely the same.

Some time ago, there was a blog post by John Hable (Naughty Dog) about this very problem. The 360 uses a pretty strange interpretation of a Gamma curve compared to basically all other systems in use, today. And in quite a lot of games, you can see that they didn't bother to set up the gamma correctly on either PS3 or 360 (depending on the lead platform).

 

[jlippo]

Some time ago, there was a blog post by John Hable (Naughty Dog) about this very problem. The 360 uses a pretty strange interpretation of a Gamma curve compared to basically all other systems in use, today. And in quite a lot of games, you can see that they didn't bother to set up the gamma correctly on either PS3 or 360 (depending on the lead platform).

It's one of those things that would life a lot easier to artists as well.
I cannot imagine how it feels after tweaking everything to look good and then seeing the scene on on another machine, ruined by a lack of contrast.

 

[Rotmm]

The 360 uses a pretty strange interpretation of a Gamma curve compared to basically all other systems in use, today.

I had this bookmarked from some time ago. Nothing about hte PS3, but goes into some depth about how the gamma curve is implemented on the 360 vs PC

http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2008/GDC2008_PostProcessingInTheOrangeBox.pdf

 

[dragonelite]

I would hardly call that parity, in fact it's much worse than the previous installment AC2. Missing lighting, shadows, and lower res textures dictate the ps3 version is far worse. I'm very disappointed in Ubi since they promised a much more improved effort this time, yet they not only failed to do so in the final product, the difference becomes even bigger.

Gotta love pr people just like with crysis 2(ps3) is suppose to run better look better then the 360. But they are only showing 360 version my spidey sense are tiggling logical fail with pr folks if you ask me when they talk like that.

 

[assurdum]

I would hardly call that parity, in fact it's much worse than the previous installment AC2. Missing lighting, shadows, and lower res textures dictate the ps3 version is far worse. I'm very disappointed in Ubi since they promised a much more improved effort this time, yet they not only failed to do so in the final product, the difference becomes even bigger.

Are you joking? What the hell do you talking about? I suspect some bizarre lack depending only of a bug or glitch, but I don't understand where do you seen missing lighting, shadow and lower res texture on the ps3 version...

 

[assurdum]

How can you get "tie" out of that comparison? Is there any category where the PS3 version won?

If you think QAA is worse than the 2xmsaa, sure, ps3 probably lose.

 

[function]

I think Quincunx is worse than regular MS.

 

[N_B]

If you think QAA is worse than the 2xmsaa, sure, ps3 probably lose.

And worse shadowing lighting, foliage. Overall it is hugely improved over AC2 due to the framerate and tearing being so good but it isn't perfect.

 

[assurdum]

And worse shadowing lighting, foliage. Overall it is hugely improved over AC2 due to the framerate and tearing being so good but it isn't perfect.

I think you are wrong.

 

[Rotmm]

And worse shadowing lighting, foliage.

Looking at the HD video from the LoT guys, there doesn't really seem to be much evidence that the PS3 visuals are significantly downgraded in those areas, and the missing sunshafts in that one area could just be a bug.

Far too little information is available to make such definitive conclusions yet.

As an aside, I played both the PS3 and 360 multiplayer offerings at the EG Expo awhile back and I could see little difference in them. More importantly, the framerate was good in both versions. When ACII was available for play at the EG Expo last year, I actually made a point of asking the Ubi rep there if the PS3 version was representative of final product, as the framerate felt substandard.