The First Halo 3 Single Player Screens + Video! Rules=#369

[AlNom]

heh, so using higher resolution textures is a minor improvement. Alright. I guess those texture mods for Oblivion PC can be considered a minor improvement too. :|

 

[Neb]

heh, so using higher resolution textures is a minor improvement. Alright. I guess those texture mods for Oblivion PC can be considered a minor improvement too. :|

I changed my opinion (edit above!), the textures are much higher res than I thought apart from what seems to be more geometry. :smile:

 

[Deepblue]

I changed my opinion (edit above!), the textures are much higher res than I thought apart from what seems to be more geometry. :smile:

Maybe I overreacted when I said atrocious, but faces are definitely my personal sore spot in Halo 3's overall visual artistry. Also the occasional low-res textures. But the lighting = so good.

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13167049
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13165034
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13162564
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13162062

I also noticed that the cut scenes seem to use real-time shadows rather than prebaked light maps. This pleases me because you don't notice that sort of detail nearly as much in the game, but it's very clear in cut scenes.

 

[AlNom]

I changed my opinion (edit above!), the textures are much higher res than I thought apart from what seems to be more geometry. :smile:

It's all good. I respect your initial opinion. I was just thinking to myself, "Well... I think they're a big improvement. *head down/quiet voice*"

I wanted to get some screenshots from the gametrailers review because they had a couple scenes with miranda keyes and a few marines that were the focus of the scene that showed major differences (all IMO). Unfortunately, I can't download them here.

 

[zed]

Halo 3's water rendered with geometry (according to the bonus disc):

Source: halo.bungie.org

That might be a compelling reason for not going with predicated tiling, having to account for that in the rendering time.

(discount that the above screen comes from halo3, ie imagine it comes from lair or something else, ie im not knocking halo3 im just commenting on the tech)
hmm im guessing u think thats a lot of verts? IMO it looks like 128x128 or 256x256 onscreen ie not that many, pretty easy for even a 5 year old cpu/gpu to churn out

 

[Mintmaster]

Halo 3's water rendered with geometry (according to the bonus disc):

Source: halo.bungie.org

http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/essentialsreview/water.jpg

That might be a compelling reason for not going with predicated tiling, having to account for that in the rendering time.

Depends on what you mean by "predicated tiling". I've always advocated manual tiling, not the automated lazy method which, AFAIK, uses a prepass and the GPU to figure out which objects are in each tile. I think it's better to roughly determine which objects/sub-objects are in each tile using the CPU (this is very fast as long as it's not polygon level), and then draw each tile using the right list.

In this scene, the best way is to chop that water into tiles, make a bounding box (or even sphere) around each tile, and test which tile each box is in. If it's in two or more, then you have a little increased geometry load, but it's not bad at all.

 

[kyleb]

Fixed.

Ah, Bungie said they worked closely on the project, so surely they could have given us an AF option if they thought the feature was worth having.

(discount that the above screen comes from halo3, ie imagine it comes from lair or something else, ie im not knocking halo3 im just commenting on the tech)
hmm im guessing u think thats a lot of verts? IMO it looks like 128x128 or 256x256 onscreen ie not that many, pretty easy for even a 5 year old cpu/gpu to churn out

It is far more tris than we get for the watter in most games.

 

[mrcorbo]

A "10" review doesn't mean a perfect game. It means the reviewer is giving the game their highest recommendation based on the entirety of the game experience and in context of what other games have done and are doing. It seems to me that most people who have a problem with games getting a top rating are giving the rating itself a meaning it was never intended to carry.

Imagine you have gone to a movie and enjoyed it so much that you are recommending it to anyone and everyone you know as, "one of the best movies I have ever seen." or even, "the best". Does this mean that everything about the movie is perfect? Every line was delivered perfectly. Every shot was lit perfectly. Every sound effect was at the perfect volume and placement in the soundstage. Every special effect was a perfect representation of real life, etc...

Of course not. It is simply the most enjoyable movie experience you have had. If you look at game reviews in this context they make a lot more sense.

You should not and can not use game reviews as absolute or objective measurements. So don't try and you'll find them a lot more useful and informative.

 

[AlNom]

(discount that the above screen comes from halo3, ie imagine it comes from lair or something else, ie im not knocking halo3 im just commenting on the tech)
hmm im guessing u think thats a lot of verts? IMO it looks like 128x128 or 256x256 onscreen ie not that many, pretty easy for even a 5 year old cpu/gpu to churn out

If it's so easy, why are there few if any games that employ such geometry for water deformation

With respect to tiling, I was more concerned with re-processing triangles that cross-over the tile dimensions, especially for the constantly moving waves. I was also considering that they do have an actual gameworld to render besides that single figure within a body of water; multiply the number of interactions by 8 or 16 in multiplayer for instance or start putting up actual land environments in the scene etc.

Depends on what you mean by "predicated tiling". I've always advocated manual tiling, not the automated lazy method which, AFAIK, uses a prepass and the GPU to figure out which objects are in each tile. I think it's better to roughly determine which objects/sub-objects are in each tile using the CPU (this is very fast as long as it's not polygon level), and then draw each tile using the right list.

In this scene, the best way is to chop that water into tiles, make a bounding box (or even sphere) around each tile, and test which tile each box is in. If it's in two or more, then you have a little increased geometry load, but it's not bad at all.

hm.... I see. Thanks for the input. How does the suitability of the method change with the scene? Some scenes will have continuously flowing geometry ala those waves above, some will be mostly static environment, others with lower geometric complexity etc. Would it be possible to adapt the tiling method on the fly to suit the scene (Going by "best way" )

There are a couple Gamefest 2007 presentations I'm hoping will shed a bit more light on tiling with the 360 (for the laymen at least!) - one on tiling itself, and another presentation involving Bungie and Epic on some graphics work.

Ah, Bungie said they worked closely on the project, so surely they could have given us an AF option if they thought the feature was worth having.

I think they should have too. Their inclusion of in-game AA options left me rather puzzled about the exclusion of AF options. And I'm still not sure why I get stuttering during gameplay when there doesn't seem to be a genuine cause - the game certainly shouldn't be taxing for my 7950GT; with or without AA or at lower resolutions or quality settings, I still get the stuttering.

Although I'm not sure what role Bungie had on the Vista port exactly, I would have guessed that they were more involved in translating the Xbox Live experience and interface to the PC.

 

[Tap In]

Time Square line

 

[kyleb]

I think they should have too. Their inclusion of in-game AA options left me rather puzzled about the exclusion of AF options. And I'm still not sure why I get stuttering during gameplay when there doesn't seem to be a genuine cause - the game certainly shouldn't be taxing for my 7950GT; with or without AA or at lower resolutions or quality settings, I still get the stuttering.

Although I'm not sure what role Bungie had on the Vista port exactly, I would have guessed that they were more involved in translating the Xbox Live experience and interface to the PC.

Heh, well the don't get any credit from me for that either as the online part sucks simply becuase they didn't bother to include default playlists for various server configurations. "The Xbox Live experience" is nowhere to be found on the PC.

As for the studering, do you run a secondary monitor? The game studdered on my x1950xtx until I dissabled my extended desktop.

Anyway, I got a good powernap in so I'm ready to hit the store in a bit and play all night.

 

[Tap In]

The MP game mode options are equally insane.

repost for those of us about to go online.



oh and don't forget to check the insane amount of online stats and features kept at Bungie.net

 

[GreekDNA]

I just played up to the 2nd level

its good but nothing more nothing less

it really feels like a halo 2 exapansion tbh.

that said ill finish the the whole game before i give my final judgment.

 

[czekon]

You're saying that the quality of this hasn't greatly improved in Halo 3

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/25482.html

looks better in motion

 

[Tap In]

Wow, some of you guys are REALLY reaching here.

I guess you don't realize all reviews were embargoed until Sunday@12pm, so there was no 'first', they all released at the same time.

It's pretty pathetic that Halo gets high scores, and all of a sudden reviews are no longer reliable, and there is a systematic problem of 'over rating' games in the industry if the gameplay is good!?

Sounds like you need a good hi-def video review

I don't know how you can watch that review, and not agree that Halo GFX are among top of the heap on 360. Absolute best in class? No, but Top 5? I'd say so. It looks very nice to me, HUGE battles, beautiful backgrounds, very realistic lighting and shadows on everything.

wow... great review with all the info... I love GT HD video reviews.

 

[Tap In]

I just played up to the 2nd level

its good but nothing more nothing less

it really feels like a halo 2 exapansion tbh.

that said ill finish the the whole game before i give my final judgment.

what's your gamertag?

 

[D3B]

Here is a good review. http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/822/822714p1.html

8.9

Closing Comments
Cam: So where does all this leave us? With a game that is worth playing, no question, but that – for me at least – is a long way from game of the year. If you’re a Halo or Halo 2 multiplayer whore you may feel differently, as the Campaign will be the icing on a delicious multiplayer cake stuffed with maps, modes, replays and options galore, but for me the actual gameplay itself – potential aside – simply doesn’t warrant a 9. It’s very close, but not quite there. Care to bang out a Conclusion Bennett?

Bennett: Hang on a second Cam, I’m just on the phone to a security firm. See, we’re going to need personal bodyguards for at least the next month, because I agree with you that this isn’t quite a 9/10 game. There’s no denying how awesome the replay and Forge features are – but they’re not the core of the game. Don’t get me wrong, the single player campaign is very strong, the action is tight, and the AI is F.E.A.R.-killing. But for every positive, there was an area of the game that left me wanting more – the backtracking, the overly cheesy storyline, the underwhelming visuals. And multiplayer feels too much like a HD-version of Halo 2 with a few gadgets you can toss around. Which to Halo fans is fine – but compared to other online shooters, I get the feeling that Halo 3 is staying a little too close to its roots. It doesn’t really matter what you or I think Cam – Halo 3 will still sell more copies in the first second of release than all of the games ever created in the history of electronic entertainment combined. But does that make it the best game on the 360? I think not.

 

[AlNom]

As for the studering, do you run a secondary monitor? The game studdered on my x1950xtx until I dissabled my extended desktop.

Nah, just a single monitor. It's been bugging me. The HDD is barely filled (no need for defrag), 2GB of RAM, 2.4GHz Athlon 64 3800+. Changing the graphics settings doesn't change a thing. There are some legit framerate drops when enemies enter the scene, but there are plenty of times when I'm just walking from point A to B and there are hitches and hard drive accesses (HDD light starts blinking wildly).

Anyway, I got a good powernap in so I'm ready to hit the store in a bit and play all night.

haha good stuff.

 

[Tap In]

Here is a good review. http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/822/822714p1.html

8.9

those crazy Aussies... nothing's ever good enough for them.


oh and this is a good review.

 

[22psi]

edit: 30 mins later