Steve Ballmer talks XBOX 2

[Wunderchu]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console? How would you even know this without proof? Would't that be referring to your previous statment mentioned above; speculation? The last time I checked, the graphics sytheciser last a lot of the things that a true GPU was able to pull off. It also costed Sony A LOT of money in the end when they tried using them in the last GScube. From my perspective, I would guess that Sony originally allianced with Nividia and placed IBM incharge of the Cell project so that the PS3 would be easier to understand than that of their last console. It would have been a pointless effort going with IBM in the first place.

in Dec. 2004, it was stated that Sony had been working with NVIDIA on the PS3 GPU for ~2 years..... Sony has been working on CELL for more than double that amount of time ... if they had intended to work with NVIDIA from the start, they most likely would have began working with them sooner.....

 

[Inane_Dork]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console?

I have read multiple people, even Sony people, who were surprised by the announcement. And have you already forgotten how that one Sony higher-up blasted the idea of "lashing" nVidia's tech onto Cell? I haven't found one piece of evidence that nVidia was Plan A for PS3. If you have some real evidence, I'd like to see it.

And I'm not talking about things like, "Well, nVidia would help with the 3D API." It's true, but there's no evidence that Sony gave that argument weight.

And I'm also not talking about how long nVidia and Sony have been working together. That in no way implies nVidia was Plan A.

 

[archie4oz]

Wrong! where do people get this idea from? programming costs account for 30-70% of the development budget (dependent on company). Currently we are something like 13 programmers, 3 designers and 9 artists...

Well I can say I'm guilty of that myself. But then I was more accustomed to large scale content driven titles where the art team alone could exceed 100 people...

Ahh the joy of small development... I miss it.

Ditto... Particularly in the handheld domain where a small 6-12 man team can still make a AAA title for that platform (at least until the PSP becomes the mainstream). It's times like this that I wish I was at Brownie Brown or something...

You can do a lot engineering wise with the right 6 people, the more people the less control you have over the quality of the engineering. Having said that you can do things with large teams you simply cannot do without the man power. You can iterate where you couldn't with a small team and you can do a lot more on the feature side.

Also smaller teams IMO tend to get less unecessary input from external sources (e.g. useless PMs, ancilliary producers, privilaged gophers, publisher cronies, etc...)

 

[Xeno]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console?

I have read multiple people, even Sony people, who were surprised by the announcement. And have you already forgotten how that one Sony higher-up blasted the idea of "lashing" nVidia's tech onto Cell? I haven't found one piece of evidence that nVidia was Plan A for PS3. If you have some real evidence, I'd like to see it.

And I'm not talking about things like, "Well, nVidia would help with the 3D API." It's true, but there's no evidence that Sony gave that argument weight.

And I'm also not talking about how long nVidia and Sony have been working together. That in no way implies nVidia was Plan A.

Are you talking about this guy? I think he works in the mail room.

However, a senior source close to Sony Computer Entertainment told gi.biz that it was a "ridiculous suggestion" that Sony would look elsewhere for a designer and manufacturer for the graphics processor (GPU) for the future console. "Sony has its own chip design teams and manufacturing facilities with massive experience in this sort of thing," he commented. "Lashing NVIDIA's technology onto the PS3 architecture would simply make no sense either technologically or commercially."

However, our source could not rule out the possibility of discussions between Sony and NVIDIA. "I'd expect that Sony talk to a lot of people," he commented. "In a business like that you always explore all the options, but it would take a hell of a pitch to change minds at Sony about internally developing the GPU, and NVIDIA just don't have that pitch. People hear a whisper that someone from NVIDIA is talking to someone from Sony and bang, you have a massive rumour, but it really doesn't mean anything - people from these companies talk all the time."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=2161

 

[Sonic]

This thread is not about PS3 and Nvidia. Let's get the thread back on topic.

 

[Spidermate]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console? How would you even know this without proof? Would't that be referring to your previous statment mentioned above; speculation? The last time I checked, the graphics sytheciser last a lot of the things that a true GPU was able to pull off. It also costed Sony A LOT of money in the end when they tried using them in the last GScube. From my perspective, I would guess that Sony originally allianced with Nividia and placed IBM incharge of the Cell project so that the PS3 would be easier to understand than that of their last console. It would have been a pointless effort going with IBM in the first place.

in Dec. 2004, it was stated that Sony had been working with NVIDIA on the PS3 GPU for ~2 years..... Sony has been working on CELL for more than double that amount of time ... if they had intended to work with NVIDIA from the start, they most likely would have began working with them sooner.....

And do you think that makes that a fact or just another assumption? How do you know they weren't just holding off on this processor until they got the other working properly? How do you know a search for a solution wasn't still in process? How do you know it wasn't some sort of strategic move based on the competition? How do you know it wasn't done to prevent infringement on other patents? Point is, you don't know. All you can do at this moment IS guess, and where has guessing gotten any of us since the very moment this project was annouced? :?

 

[London Geezer]

What part of

This thread is not about PS3 and Nvidia. Let's get the thread back on topic.

do u not understand?

 

[Spidermate]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console?

I have read multiple people, even Sony people, who were surprised by the announcement. And have you already forgotten how that one Sony higher-up blasted the idea of "lashing" nVidia's tech onto Cell? I haven't found one piece of evidence that nVidia was Plan A for PS3. If you have some real evidence, I'd like to see it.

And I'm not talking about things like, "Well, nVidia would help with the 3D API." It's true, but there's no evidence that Sony gave that argument weight.

And I'm also not talking about how long nVidia and Sony have been working together. That in no way implies nVidia was Plan A.

I hope you aren't basing this on what i think you are. Given the odds, I would say 8 times out of 10, it's more than a fair possibility that you are. Anyway, how long has it been before Open GL was announced publically to you? Just because YOU haven't had any success on your search for it before does not make it false. There's a reason for it not being availible to you in the first place. That would be the same as me assuming Microsoft went with IBM because Sony and Nintendo did. We don't know this yet, including yourself.

 

[a688]

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console?

I have read multiple people, even Sony people, who were surprised by the announcement. And have you already forgotten how that one Sony higher-up blasted the idea of "lashing" nVidia's tech onto Cell? I haven't found one piece of evidence that nVidia was Plan A for PS3. If you have some real evidence, I'd like to see it.

And I'm not talking about things like, "Well, nVidia would help with the 3D API." It's true, but there's no evidence that Sony gave that argument weight.

And I'm also not talking about how long nVidia and Sony have been working together. That in no way implies nVidia was Plan A.

I hope you aren't basing this on what i think you are. Given the odds, I would say 8 times out of 10, it's more than a fair possibility that you are. Anyway, how long has it been before Open GL was announced publically to you? Just because YOU haven't had any success on your search for it before does not make it false. There's a reason for it not being availible to you in the first place. That would be the same as me assuming Microsoft went with IBM because Sony and Nintendo did. We don't know this yet, including yourself.

I think you have too many cancerous "cells" in your brain. Good job making assumptions and then telling other people they are wrong for making assumptions that fly in the face of what you want to believe. Please go away.

 

[Spidermate]

You don't listen. When have I said anyone was wrong? I asked, "How could it be possible without any proof?" Then I went on explaining as to how it could be wrong due to the many possibilities. How was I wrong if I may ask? :? It seems you are the one looking for something to believe in, no offense. Therefore, I don't believe that last comment should have even been applied to me.

 

[a688]

You don't listen. When have I said anyone was wrong? I asked, "How could it be possible without any proof?" Then I went on explaining as to how it could be wrong due to the many possibilities. How was I wrong if I may ask? :? It seems you are the one looking for something to believe in, no offense. Therefore, I don't believe that last comment should have even been applied to me.

It seems you've never heard of occam's razor. Making complicated theories to try to make fact meet fiction is crazy. Hey, maybe Sony planned for nVidia to win the first xbox contract so it would have experience in the console area so when the next generation came they would have something 1000000x more powerful. Yeah, thats it.

 

[one]

You don't listen. When have I said anyone was wrong? I asked, "How could it be possible without any proof?" Then I went on explaining as to how it could be wrong due to the many possibilities. How was I wrong if I may ask? :? It seems you are the one looking for something to believe in, no offense. Therefore, I don't believe that last comment should have even been applied to me.

It seems you've never heard of occam's razor. Making complicated theories to try to make fact meet fiction is crazy. Hey, maybe Sony planned for nVidia to win the first xbox contract so it would have experience in the console area so when the next generation came they would have something 1000000x more powerful. Yeah, thats it.

Though your conspiracy theory seems to be silly, it's funny to see it from a slightly different angle... MS poured big money into nVIDIA when nVIDIA developed the GPU and the chip set for the Xbox 1, will continue to pay nVIDIA until Xbox 1 dies, helping nVIDIA R&D and Sony indirectly.

One example of XNA content pipeline may look like this...

Developed in XNA -> Unreal Engine 3.0 -> nVIDIA -> PS3

 

[Spidermate]

You don't listen. When have I said anyone was wrong? I asked, "How could it be possible without any proof?" Then I went on explaining as to how it could be wrong due to the many possibilities. How was I wrong if I may ask? :? It seems you are the one looking for something to believe in, no offense. Therefore, I don't believe that last comment should have even been applied to me.

It seems you've never heard of occam's razor. Making complicated theories to try to make fact meet fiction is crazy. Hey, maybe Sony planned for nVidia to win the first xbox contract so it would have experience in the console area so when the next generation came they would have something 1000000x more powerful. Yeah, thats it.

Seriously, are you trying to be funny, or do you just have a personal problem with listening? Reread my last message. Then we'll come back and discuss this topic.