Steve Ballmer talks XBOX 2

[Farid]

According to which sales data? Remake sold 460,000 and as you said earlier RE0 sold more then Remake.

The source for the US data is NPD.
And RE0 outsold REmake, worldwide. In the US REmake slightly outsold RE0. If you're curious about the exact numbers, I'll edit this post, and post them tomorow.

Good point, although its not always the case.

Except for Limited Editions and like, in Japan, the numbers of copies on shelves are decided by the retailers.
In the case of a big title like RE4 (The marketing for the game wasn't a half-assed job, it costed mucho dinero), if the shipement is that low, the only reason is that retailers didn't believe in it.

175,000 sold out of 185,000 available is a sell out. So you can't really say that they were right about the stock needed because it sold 145,000 in the first week and only 30,000 in the second week. Since it couldn't have sold more then 30,000 in the second week anyway.

185k figure was for the first week only, and it sold 140k. Retailers were right on the money.
I don't remember exactly how many SKUs they got (the retailers who asked for more) for the 2nd week, but I remember that there weren't any sold out situation, sadly for Capcom.

 

[Spidermate]

I'm not sure about Nintendo, but Sony seems to be working on something similiar for their console better known as Open GL.

It's quite possible they paraphrased incorrectly, but this article says otherwise: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20041228125957.html

If you mean Sony may not be working on a better way to speeding up the process for developing games faster, you may be wrong. I see no other reason for them wanting to join a members club to have access to this stuff unless they were planning to use it. As for the artical's statement of them not using Open GL, I'm quite certain that they were referring to something else non-related to the CPU.

 

[Spidermate]

So XNA is for Xbox/Xenon exclusives or Xbox/Xenon/PC games. Third-parties are looking to leverage across at least 2 consoles?

Is MS going to give XNA away? Guessing no.

Is XNA for Xenon and PC? Yes. Can it be used for other platformas outside of the Xenon and PC? Yes. Microsoft has stated this awhile back, although I do doubt it could have been a 100% friendly for something like Cell. Anyway, the only problem is, if this were to happen, everything would become standard in the way Window's is on the average computer -- which is their goal. I believe this is why Sony went with a similiar API of their own. I'm still not entirely sure yet, though. Maybe they had this in mind all alone. I guess that's something we'll never know. In any case, it''s irrelevant. But whatever it is, though, it seems to be in the same vicinity as XNA.

 

[Spidermate]

Another objective statement to balance out Ballmer's enthusiasm. How did that get in here? But lets explore this: Are Sony and Nintendo doing more than MS on the software side to reduce costs and development time? Has Sony created a console that is more accessible and therefore more affordable to develop on than MS?

We don't know this yet. But as a hardware comapny, we can assume that Sony, too, will have an profitable/affordable console as well.

As far as their API is concerend, I really can't tell you if it could be more friendlier or not than what Microsoft is whipping up with XNA; one of the obvious reasons being that Microsoft are specialest in this field. But, it would be a far stretch to assume that Sony would be setting on their butts at this point.

I'm hoping Nintendo has something to speed up the process as well. But as usual, they seem to be the most tight-lipped of the three.

 

[Phil]

Wrong! where do people get this idea from? programming costs account for 30-70% of the development budget (dependent on company). Currently we are something like 13 programmers, 3 designers and 9 artists...

The question is though is, how will XNA change that? Or even better, how will XNA reduce those costs? Is there already a realworld difference in costs of Xbox development oposed to PS2? And if yes, how much of a +/- would this difference account for?

BTW; not to be nitpicky, but your own claim of 30% to 70% actually does mean that it's indeed quite dependant on the company and therefore indirectly answered your own question of where 'we' would get this idea from.

 

[pc999]

Probably depends if the game is exclussive or multiplatform, once that the art is the same but should give a lot more work to programe 2 or 3 consoles.

 

[Titanio]

The question is though is, how will XNA change that?

In absolute numbers, it may not change it at all. In fact you'd be lucky if something like XNA even reduced the increase in programming resources that would have been needed without it i.e. you saw an increase, but not as big as otherwise might have been.

It may help change the ratio of artrogramming etc. though.

At the moment, though, I'm a little sceptical of XNA. The devs of "Condemned" seemed impressed, but I'll wait for more specific info. I can see some devs not using the built-in framework at all, mostly the larger ones, but sure, it should be a boon for small devs and startups in particular.

I'm sure DeanoC would be a little more enlightened about what it brings to the table, though

 

[pc999]

Think this way you could contract + 5 programers to use Cell well, or you could contract + 3 programmers + 2 artist and get more NPC maps weapons etc..., the later would add value to the game by their own.

Fixed that for you, who do you think writes all the weapon code, level specific stuff?
Even if technically they are "designers", if you program (even script) your a programmer.

Thanks.
Anyway you got what I meant, 5 programers to the engine itself, and only to that, or 3+2 for content

 

[ERP]

Wrong! where do people get this idea from? programming costs account for 30-70% of the development budget (dependent on company). Currently we are something like 13 programmers, 3 designers and 9 artists...

Ahh the joy of small development... I miss it.

I'm currently working on a PS2 game and my current team is 140+ people and will be bigger before we ship, including somewhere in excess of 30 programmers if you include the contractors it's a lot more than that. Of course theres a lot of management in a team of that size aswell.

The ratios have changed over the years and are still changing, a well written content driven game can allow you to go VERY wide on content, but it's a none trivial problem and I've never seen it done completly effectively. But to some extent even then all you're really doing is calling your junior programmers designers or something else and not giving them the rope to hang themselves and everyone else on the project with.



The XNA initiative isn't so much designed to reduce these team sizes as much as it is to allow small developers compete at least at some level with the guys who can afford to throw 100+ people at a project.

 

[Junekwan]

PS3'API will be OpenGL ES2.0 certainly.
See this..
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2004/0729/kaigai104.htm

Khronos participates in which SCEI settles on OpenGL ES.

8)

 

[Inane_Dork]

PS3'API will be OpenGL ES2.0 certainly.
See this..
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2004/0729/kaigai104.htm

Khronos participates in which SCEI settles on OpenGL ES.

8)

Thanks. Nice to have a lock on that.

So TOOL v.1 will be out this quarter (or is already out)...

 

[DeanoC]

I'm sure DeanoC would be a little more enlightened about what it brings to the table, though

You would think so, wouldn't you... but I can sum my entire knowledge in 1 statement...

The logo keep appearing in various help files I have to read...

That help clear anything up

 

[AzBat]

I'm sure DeanoC would be a little more enlightened about what it brings to the table, though

You would think so, wouldn't you... but I can sum my entire knowledge in 1 statement...

The logo keep appearing in various help files I have to read...

That help clear anything up

You mean they're brainwashing you!!

Tommy McClain

 

[Inane_Dork]

You would think so, wouldn't you... but I can sum my entire knowledge in 1 statement...

The logo keep appearing in various help files I have to read...

That help clear anything up

Brought back to reality once again.

 

[pc999]

The XNA initiative isn't so much designed to reduce these team sizes as much as it is to allow small developers compete at least at some level with the guys who can afford to throw 100+ people at a project.

Some of the best games in history are made from small teams (big teams had made too), so that is great.

 

[ERP]

Personally I'm a big fan of small teams.

You can do a lot engineering wise with the right 6 people, the more people the less control you have over the quality of the engineering. Having said that you can do things with large teams you simply cannot do without the man power. You can iterate where you couldn't with a small team and you can do a lot more on the feature side.

 

[pc999]

Thats why games from small teams and big teams are diferent ( dont ask me what diferences )?
I guess that it is pretty hard to a small team make some things in their games, specialy those big (features suport wise).
Anyway both smalls and big teams make great games, but would be pity if small teams are droped for next gen.

 

[Spidermate]

PS3'API will be OpenGL ES2.0 certainly.
See this..
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2004/0729/kaigai104.htm

Khronos participates in which SCEI settles on OpenGL ES.

8)

Thanks. Nice to have a lock on that.

So TOOL v.1 will be out this quarter (or is already out)...

I told you. I don't think neither of these consoles, in relation to Sony and Microsoft, will be miles apart from one another, as far as one being more developer friendly than the other is concerned, like a lot of people are making it out to be. If the API tools are even somewhat on the same level as the next competitor, I honestly don't see neither side winning over more developers. As i said before, it's like a shiney bike being sold in a different color.

It's clear that both Microsoft and Sony are learning from their pass mistakes. Now, here's hoping Nintendo pick up the slack.

 

[Inane_Dork]

I told you. I don't think neither of these consoles, in relation to Sony and Microsoft, will be miles apart from one another, as far as one being more developer friendly than the other is concerned, like a lot of people are making it out to be. If the API tools are even somewhat on the same level as the next competitor, I honestly don't see neither side winning over more developers. As i said before, it's like a shiney bike being sold in a different color.

It is still not proven that they are similarly easy. It's probable that they comparable, but you're still speculating.

It's clear that both Microsoft and Sony are learning from their pass mistakes.

I don't think it's clear Sony learned at all. Going with nVidia, which was seen as a large plus by basically the entire industry, was not what Sony wanted. And we have little idea how OpenGL ES 2.0 is going to work for the PS3. ES is currently focused on mobile devices and the API will likely need significant extending to make the console as programmable as desired. It's not clear Sony has learned from their past mistakes yet, just as it's not clear MS has learned either.

 

[Spidermate]

I told you. I don't think neither of these consoles, in relation to Sony and Microsoft, will be miles apart from one another, as far as one being more developer friendly than the other is concerned, like a lot of people are making it out to be. If the API tools are even somewhat on the same level as the next competitor, I honestly don't see neither side winning over more developers. As i said before, it's like a shiney bike being sold in a different color.

It is still not proven that they are similarly easy. It's probable that they comparable, but you're still speculating.

If the shoe fits, why not ( speculation, I mean)? I mean, wouldn't that be the same as you assuming both of these consoles on the same level because the both are using the same firm or because the both are launching at roughly the same time. You get my drift?

It's clear that both Microsoft and Sony are learning from their pass mistakes.

I don't think it's clear Sony learned at all. Going with nVidia, which was seen as a large plus by basically the entire industry, was not what Sony wanted. And we have little idea how OpenGL ES 2.0 is going to work for the PS3. ES is currently focused on mobile devices and the API will likely need significant extending to make the console as programmable as desired. It's not clear Sony has learned from their past mistakes yet, just as it's not clear MS has learned either.

How can you be so sure that Sony didn't orginally plan on partnering with Nvidia for their next console? How would you even know this without proof? Would't that be referring to your previous statment mentioned above; speculation? The last time I checked, the graphics synthesizer lacked a lot of the things that a true GPU was able to pull off. It also costed Sony A LOT of money in the end when they tried using them in the last GScube. Why would Sony put themselves in the same boat once again? From my perspective, I would guess that Sony originally allianced with Nividia and placed IBM incharge of the Cell project so that the PS3 would be easier to understand than that of their last console. It would have been a pointless effort going with IBM in the first place. As we understand, though, IBM is involved in a lagre deal of what's to come of the next-generation PlayStation -- including some of its software tools. As odd as it may seem, the puzzle pieces seem to be positioning themselves according to what was mentioned earlier.

Also note that I never said that Sony's API could be on the same scale or even superior to what Microsoft is working on or vice-versa. I gave a rough estimate, based on my knowlegde of these tools and what I have gathered, that there may not be as much favoring, if any, to neither side if these tools are at least somewhat comparable to the other.