*spin* Devs Showing Games on PC/Console HW

[DrJay24]

EDIT: But again, I don't know where is the issue, all Xbox 360 demos at E3 2005 was running on "PCs" (Power Mac G5), not real hardware.

What kind of argument is this? They lied to me in 2005 so they can lie to me this year?

Do you have more interest in transparency and truth or that your favorite console maker doesn't have egg on its face?

Using the fact that some demos were using real hardware is not helping your case, it shows that hardware was available (unless you can argue that Dice can't get a dev kit), some just choose not to use it. Why is that?

 

[Scott_Arm]

The issue is that we don't have a full listing of who was showing what on what hardware and what resolution/vsync was used along with what the (realistic) target for xbone is. We have some which clearly have been caught using PC's in place of xbone (nothing was mentioned prior to the leaked pics) and others which are using devkits based on xbone.

Forza was nice, but in looking at other PC games, driving games seem to be the easiest to get decent bang/buck. Take a look at how well Dirt and NFS run on 7770. 60fps/1080p for the most part. So seeing Forza hitting roughly the same is par for the course.

Seeing BF4 hitting 1080p 60fps on xbone would be a bit more impressive. But that demo wasn’t running on xbone hardware. Right?

So as far as I can see, the only ones actually running on xbone hardware (spec) are Ryse, Forza, and KI (which looked like a xb360 game). The rest, I’d say it’s safe to assume they were running on pc’s without regard for spec (maybe realistically handicapped as you suggested, maybe not) until proven otherwise.

The motive for bringing high-spec pcs to show off xbone games is obvious. The reasoning for bringing more reasonably specced pc’s to represent xbone games is also obvious (big savings going with barebones amd bulldozer + 7770 over top of the line nvidia hardware and sandy/ivybridge)

We see what direction was chosen for xbone demo hardware (that we’ve seen) and until we see others which were a more fair representation of what to expect from xbone, I think it’s safe to assume the ones which were not photographed were likely running on non-spec hardware (aside from Ryse, KI, Forza).

It’s a moot point for now as the façade will be over as soon as the real hardware and games make their way to shelves later this year. Until then, take what “gameplay” you see of xbone software with a grain of salt.

The whole thing is funny to me though given the lack of interest by MS to bring a high-spec machine to market in xbone:
“Nobody would notice the difference, but let’s just use these uber workstations just in case they do!”

Why bother?

I don't understand why this is "an issue" at all? The games might not achieve their targets. Some might overachieve. Doesn't seem like they were trying to pull a scam on anybody, because they told people that asked that the games were running on PCs. If the visuals and the framerate were bounded to appropriately simulate what they think they can get to on the Xbox One, then what's the problem? Doesn't seem like anyone was pushing 2560x1600 with MSAA and uncapped framerates or anything. If someone had a high-end PC set to "ultra" settings or something like that, we'd have a problem.

Also, it seems like some of the first party stuff was on Xbox Ones and dev kits, so there isn't really a problem with how Microsoft is selling things. Some 3rd parties may be over ambitious. We'll find out closer to launch if there are any visible downgrades.

 

[warb]

What kind of argument is this? They lied to me in 2005 so they can lie to me this year?

Do you have more interest in transparency and truth or that your favorite console maker doesn't have egg on its face?

Using the fact that some demos were using real hardware is not helping your case, it shows that hardware was available (unless you can argue that Dice can't get a dev kit), some just choose not to use it. Why is that?

What kind of nonsense is this? The XDK in 2005 was a G5 with X800 GPU. What do you want them to demo games on?

 

[XpiderMX]

What about 3rd party demos?

I guess there was not BF4 public demos (for example), at least I haven't seen any videos.

EDIT: It looks like TitanFall and CoD were run on Xbox One hardware too.

What kind of argument is this? They lied to me in 2005 so they can lie to me this year?

Do you have more interest in transparency and truth or that your favorite console maker doesn't have egg on its face?

Using the fact that some demos were using real hardware is not helping your case, it shows that hardware was available (unless you can argue that Dice can't get a dev kit), some just choose not to use it. Why is that?

What I mean is, how is it an issue if it wasn't an issue at 2005?

 

[Scott_Arm]

What kind of argument is this? They lied to me in 2005 so they can lie to me this year?

Do you have more interest in transparency and truth or that your favorite console maker doesn't have egg on its face?

Using the fact that some demos were using real hardware is not helping your case, it shows that hardware was available (unless you can argue that Dice can't get a dev kit), some just choose not to use it. Why is that?

Lied? They told people the games were on dev kits or pcs. Who was caught in a lie saying their game was running on the console, when it was actually running on a PC?

 

[dobwal]

Exactly! Neither are high-end Nvidia GPU's!

There are not in the 5 figure range which was supposedly the price of 360 dev kits in the early days.

Futhermore, alot of you either have short term memories or get outrage everytime we have a e3 prior to next gen launches.

Most of the Xbox games were demo'd on G5s in 2005 and one of the very few confirmed working units was running the ATI Ruby demo and operated at less than official specs. In 2006, PS3 titles like AC were running on PCs emulating the PS3. Most multiplat titles were shown off running on 360 dev kits in 2006.

 

[dobwal]

What kind of argument is this? They lied to me in 2005 so they can lie to me this year?

Do you have more interest in transparency and truth or that your favorite console maker doesn't have egg on its face?

Using the fact that some demos were using real hardware is not helping your case, it shows that hardware was available (unless you can argue that Dice can't get a dev kit), some just choose not to use it. Why is that?

Lied? You could see the G5s sitting right behind and through a metal mesh screen. Plus the 360 shells had no lights. MS must of did a very poor job of deception.

 

[DrJay24]

Lied? They told people the games were on dev kits or pcs. Who was caught in a lie saying their game was running on the console, when it was actually running on a PC?

I consider it a lie when they show there game with a big XB1 banner, use a new XB1 controller and then lock the PC in a cabinet or have it off stage.

Call it what you like, it is deceiving and they do it on purpose. If they were being honest they could have a disclaimer in the title screen or a placard saying it is PC target hardware. Plenty of devs were showing games on real hardware, warts and all.

The BF4 guys got sloppy and left the PC prompts in the demo and then got questioned for it. But before they admitted to it most people thought it was XB1 hardware, as they should it was the XB1 floor demo after all.

Lied? You could see the G5s sitting right behind and through a metal mesh screen. Plus the 360 shells had no lights. MS must of did a very poor job of deception.

Ok, they didn't lie in 2005, just 2013. Have it your way?

 

[dagamer]

Besides, unless a game is support to be ready at launch, it doesn't matter if its running on a dev kit or not. The transition from one development environment to another is something you really want to do as few times as possible.

 

[XpiderMX]

I consider it a lie when they show there game with a big XB1 banner, use a new XB1 controller and then lock the PC in a cabinet or have it off stage.

The game will be the same at the end, being shown on PC or on Xbox One hardware, or do you really think Lococycle will be "worse" at the end? have you seen Lococycle? it is a Xbox 360 XBLA game, the same for Crimson Dragon.

 

[warb]

I consider it a lie when they show there game with a big XB1 banner, use a new XB1 controller and then lock the PC in a cabinet or have it off stage.

Call it what you like, it is deceiving and they do it on purpose. If they were being honest they could have a disclaimer in the title screen or a placard saying it is PC target hardware. Plenty of devs were showing games on real hardware, warts and all.

The BF4 guys got sloppy and left the PC prompts in the demo and then got questioned for it. But before they admitted to it most people thought it was XB1 hardware, as they should it was the XB1 floor demo after all.



Ok, they didn't lie in 2005, just 2013. Have it your way?

Is far as I can tell the demos running on other PC hardware did not have the Xbox One cases and Kinect on display.

 

[James Car]

Perhaps things aren't as bad as I originally thought.

Bottom line, DF will get to the bottom of this once the consoles are released and the first wave hits. From there, all will be known that needs to be known WRT where each console stands in relation to each other.

That is, unless MS stuffs an nvidia Titan and a quad IvyBridge in the case before shipping off to eurogamer!

There's still time to switch MS! Tick Tick!

 

[dobwal]

Ok, they didn't lie in 2005, just 2013. Have it your way?

Can you point out where a MS rep said that all Xbox demos are running on dev kits based on final hardware?

I must of missed that statement.

 

[temesgen]

Perhaps things aren't as bad as I originally thought.

Bottom line, DF will get to the bottom of this once the consoles are released and the first wave hits. From there, all will be known that needs to be known WRT where each console stands in relation to each other.

That is, unless MS stuffs an nvidia Titan and a quad IvyBridge in the case before shipping off to eurogamer!

There's still time to switch MS! Tick Tick!

They don't need graphics card, that's last generation. They will leverage the cloud to get better graphics to the reviewers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0XXS7eswC0

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Perhaps things aren't as bad as I originally thought.

I really don't think it was. As others have said, using your devstation makes sense instead of buying new PCs just to showcase a game. There's also the issue of whether the VMs are running efficiently on PC or maybe you need 2x the grunt to the get the same performance as the native XB1 experience. The VM could well explain the crashes versus running a PC version of the game (although at E3, build state could be very ropey for any title). There are also the known XB1 games on XB1 hardware that were every bit the equal of the PC games, so it's not like the uber-PCs were misrepresenting what is likely to come from XB1.

At this point I see no reason to harp on about E3. Unless someone has placed a preorder based solely on the strength of the graphics from the games running on PC, there's nothing to worry about. People can wait until real games show on real hardware.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I really don't think it was. As others have said, using your devstation makes sense instead of buying new PCs just to showcase a game.

Doesn't even have to be a dev system, it can just be a demo unit that you happen to have; a lot of these systems are probably repurposed from GDC demos. Do we know that all of the systems on the booth were supplied by MS? Could they not have been supplied by the developer / publisher of the game that wants the exposure of the title on the MS booth?

 

[James Car]

Unless someone has placed a preorder based solely on the strength of the graphics from the games running on PC, there's nothing to worry about...

That's just it though, we don't know.

...Do we know that all of the systems on the booth were supplied by MS?

Again we don't know.

All we do know is that some of them were factually not xbone devkits and yet, showing xbone games.

Bottom line as Shifty said, once the systems are ready for release and get their first games reviewed (especially multi-plats) then the full story will be revealed.

 

[BRiT]

Yup, pretty much this is a total non issue as we will find out once the retail hardware hits alongside the retail software. The only purpose to pushing this to seem like its an issue at all is because someone has a personal bias.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's just it though, we don't know.

Don't know what? Whether to worry? Unless you've money on the line, there's no need to worry. Worst case, turns out XB1 is not very good at games and it was only PC looking good at E3, and everyone who wants to play games goes and buys something else. That's hardly something to worry about.

 

[blakjedi]

That's just it though, we don't know.



Again we don't know.

All we do know is that some of them were factually not xbone devkits and yet, showing xbone games.

Bottom line as Shifty said, once the systems are ready for release and get their first games reviewed (especially multi-plats) then the full story will be revealed.

This whole controversy seems like a story about promoting a perceived advantage. Its rather silly to either worry or parrot the issue like its a real issue.