Sony's New Motion Controller

Then I recommend going for the PMC rather than WiiMotionPlus, as the latter is what he's demonstrating. ;)

Check the date on that presentation...... this is a technology development demo.
If you want to estimate WiiMote performance in games, wouldn't it make one hell of a lot more sense to use the demos Nintendo has made of Sports Resort, for instance? Or even better, look for yourselves during the summer since it is going to be globally available.
 
Jack Tretton to CNBC.
“Personally, it’s very difficult for me to perceive ‘God of War 3’ being played with the Wii controller,” he says. “It’s a different experience that doesn’t lend itself to certain types of games. [But] I think our [motion] controller can be used with every game that’s on the system now — and every game we’re working on.”
Really?

CNBC:Do does that mean we could see updates released for existing games to make them compatible with the new controller?

”I think that’s absolutely conceivable,” says Tretton.

But is ut likely? Maybe for some titles like Pain, else not very much me thinks.
 
Jack Tretton to CNBC.

Really?

But is ut likely? Maybe for some titles like Pain, else not very much me thinks.

Unless they make the controllers feel like DS3 (e.g., using a break apart controller), it would be hard to make core gamers play GoW3 using the new controller.

The natural UI controllers may be better off if the devs make games specifically for them. They can tap on Wii's use cases for casual gaming (i.e., probably want to convert Wii customers).

Something like the Magic Mirror demo would be great, but only MS will have the 3D imaging tech to implement makeup and new hairdo mapping convincingly.


The other angle is seamlessness. If Sony continues to implement one-off enhancements to games, then their impact will be marginalized. They will need to incorporate natural interfaces (in a useful way) into all the basic applications consistently (XMB, media player, PS Store, etc.) to establish a brand new experience. Without which, people will still perceive natural UI as a "gimmicky" extension.
 
I was actually thinking about the Toshiba demo. Without the 3D "image" of the model's head, how did the program map the makeup so perfectly onto her face ? They might have prepared the dataset beforehand, and then fit it to the model's movement on-the-fly.
 
Perhaps they took a lot of 2D scans of the head rotating and built up a 3D model?? They only really need to determine displacement from a generic head model which can be mapped to the face.
 
The only detail I could find is this one: http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/131

In order to create a 3D model of the face of the person sitting in front of the camera, the processor first mapped 500 coordinates. Details such as hair and makeup were then superimposed onto the 3D model. To keep up with changing facial expressions and positioning, all 500 coordinates were read 100 times per second. Different hair, makeup and tattoos were applied to the model in realtime.

The “digital mirror” demonstration is in principle an Eye Toy setup, where a camera is able to detect movement and track objects, albeit with a much higher resolution.
 
I think it is important to discuss how this is going to be packaged and how much it will cost for the consumer.

It will need 2 additional hardware thats for sure. The eye camera and the motion sensing controller. How much is this estimated to cost to produce?

This is important in order to see if this can be included in the console at an affordable price. This is the only way that Sony can use this to attract the maximum of sales.

I think it will be much better if this is sold as a Dual Shock 4 that incorporates the technology. But this should cause some confusion. A DS4 would need a camera to work fully. A camera should be included with or without it for those that own a camera already.

How can it be packaged and marketed?
 
If it's the boring corporate view, it'd simply be loosely packaged. Console pricing would still be kept as premium as possible, but as low as they can get some reasonable volume going.

Then they would simply roll out X camera-savvy games per year for the gaming population. From their macro perspective, they seem to only look at volume numbers (like a typical h/w manufacturer) and do some backroom calculation to project their growth. The projected number needs to be large enough (like one billion dollars) for them to take it seriously. This should allow them to control their cost/profitability in a familiar (and hence, comfortable) manner.

In this view, PS Eye was bundled with Eye of Judgment for $69. The added controller would push it higher but should not be more expensive than a complete Wiimote because part of the tracking mechanism is already in the PS Eye. If you already have a PS Eye, then the entry cost will of course be lower. The thing is the user can buy-in incrementally because with a PS Eye, you can already achieve part of the functions. This is the hardware centric, risk averse route.


If, by the chance that someone in Sony is in a startup mood, then they'd look at the target market (e.g., women), and then dream up a complete package to draw them in. e.g, Hands free UI may be useful for women with dirty hands (in the kitchen), so expect some apps for the kitchen; they may also create a Magic Mirror type applications to address their daily dressing needs; etc. Then, Sony has to figure out how they intend to charge these people. They could go for a subscription model, and use it to subsidize the hardware cost. In this manner, the BOM cost is not a showstopper, but still important. They could also do a razor model if there is a consumable somewhere in the plan.



So basically, everything is possible. :)
And they can technically execute both moves above.
 
Its hard to say because we dont know what the final product actually is yet. Im hoping for a break apart dual shock 3 replacement. This would mean current PS3 owners with a PSEye only need to buy the controller otherwise both, many people want just a second controller so would get this anyway and so only need the camera in the future if they havent already. Now all newly bought consoles would come with the break apart controller as standard instead of DS3 so from that point on only the PSEeye would be needed for each new owner and could also be offered as a pack-in.
 
Did some looking on my own and found some prototypes on GAF that were provided via the USPTO...

eb4oas.jpg

2u76a2h.jpg

2l8zxxi.jpg


None of them accomodate the light bulb though.

Tommy McClain
 
The GAF thread also talks about another patent: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1301881&postcount=487

I believe one of the patents they filed uses other geometric shape to track the controller (e.g., 4 [color] LED lights forming a rectangle). Incidentally, SIXAXIS/DS3 has 4 LED lights to indicate controller number (but aligned in one row instead of a rectangle).

Will find the link when I have more time.

EDIT: This is not to say Sony will adopt the above designs though. I'm sure someone will leak a picture when the time is right. :D

EDIT 2: The "transformer" Dual Shock can be seen in Fig 8 of this patent:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2008/10/...ike-controller-with-additional-functionality/
 
How they going to do this with the big light bulb on the end? I'd love to see some mock-ups that show how that would work.

Tommy McClain

There patent shows this:

sony_patent.jpg


Obviously it would be much more refined. I dont care what it looks like as long as it functions well.
 
I have recently came across a site of a software company where you can download an application that makes your camera an enabled motion detection device to play your PC games with.

The application is called CamSpace

http://www.camspace.com/

No controllers needed. It is the exact same concept used by Natal. I havent used it yet with any game but it is an interesting concept that makes me wonder how can Sony use a similar concept with the Eye Toy. I mean...that thing can make my own PC with a standard camera play games without controllers.

The only thing it may be lacking is depth detection and some more advanced technology to decrease the affection of different light conditions. 2D detection should be fine. Based on what I saw, many of the experiences may not necessarily require Z axis movement

Lets say that Sony wants to incorporate a Z-axis detection of course they might need a peripheral. Probably tiny bulbs using the technology we have seen on their demonstration that can be attached on body parts?

Youtube is filled with ton of videos of people using it. Even Goggle Earth can be used with it.

edit: Heh even draw with some moderate accuracy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4BY-1bbp5M
 
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CamSpace seems to "recognize" the object in your hand to control the application. The demoes I saw didn't really control the app with bare hands. Nonetheless, the concept is indeed similar to the PS Eye and Project Natal.

I think the latter two are more advanced though. e.g., PS Eye can track up to 120Hz @ 320 x 240 resolution (or 60Hz @ 640 x 480 like regular webcams). It comes with a mic array for voice applications. The PS Eye software is also more versatile (Tracks human head, color, motion, pattern, speech and sketches/drawing).

Natal has z-camera, mic array and very sophisticated skeleton tracking system to boot. Speech, face and other forms of recognition are also in the works.


EDIT: Bah, forgot about the new controller totally. PS Eye also helps to handle precise and very fast tracking of the traditional game controller. So currently, Sony seems to cover all the basics. Hopefully they package everything together in a seamless manner. Already described what I wanted in the new controller (i.e., make it behave like a mouse when laid on a table, playable like a Dual Shock, and as precise as a Wiimote Plus when flailing :))
 
There patent shows this:

sony_patent.jpg


Obviously it would be much more refined. I dont care what it looks like as long as it functions well.

I still can't fathom something like that replacing a Dual Shock 3. That was the reasoning my question: how can they make a break-apart controller that replaces the Dual Shock 3 AND supports the Playstation Motion Controller technology? So far I haven't seen anything that fits the bill.

Tommy McClain
 
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