Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[Arwin]

Does it work on the Wifi models, without the GPS in the 3G?

You mean near? Yes, it will try to use skyhook, or whatever it is called. You can improve your own location by adding your wifi router to skyhook at the official site.

So when Sony takes advantage of a die shrink, they could save themselves money and get better battery life. That would be the traditional console/handheld model.

But the Vita is competing against mobile devices, which are using die shrinks not just to reduce costs but to increase performance.

Increase performance vs cost. And in that equation, Vita can play along precisely by staying fixed hardware - it will benefit from all cost decreases, having powerful enough hardware to stay current for quite a while (also in terms of shared manufactoring resources), but at the same time have a much higher performance vs cost ratio thanks to proprietary software being able to specialise for and get the most out of the Vita.

Maybe a year or two from now, Sony would need to increase clock speed or improve/increase cores to put out a more competitive product, even at the cost of fragmenting its installed base?

So, no, they would never do that. The important question you have to ask yourself here is 'more competitive at what'? It will take a long time before phones and pads have more powerful hardware at comparable prices (though perhaps not that long), but then it will take a lot longer than that before the hardware is powerful enough to absorb the additional abstraction layer that iOS/Android/Metro bring.

At least that is my understanding. The Vita would be more compelling at $99 with all its analog sticks, dual touch-screens, dual cams, gyros and what not when it has a large selection of games that also makes the most of its quad-core gpu and cpu, and it will be a long time before any similarly priced phone or tablet device can offer anything of the sort.

 

[patsu]

The GPS is said to work even without 3G/WiFi connection. I am not entirely sure if SkyHook will work without a live connection.

Other than this difference, Near can use either GPS or/and SkyHook to determine your location.


As for whether Sony will update Vita hardware, it looks like their two pronged approach is:

(A) PS Suite
For cross platform gaming. Usually small games, or old games (e.g., PSP, PSOne)

(B) Playstation Vita reference hardware + OS
For PS exclusive games. The device may be a dedicated handheld console, a phone or a tablet. I do think that if Sony makes a Vita phone, then it is possible that they will introduce more powerful models but won't fragment the gamer base because the games will be targeted at the Vita reference hardware. It's just a wild speculation. All we can do is to wait and see.

 

[Arwin]

the location reading is way off on for my location, like a couple hundred miles off, I tried it on the map apps too, its gives the same results, strangely the google map on my andriod tablet is pretty accurate. I Hope they can update NEAR later so it can read system to system without going over the net like street pass though, since I take the train everyday.

So, the important difference between Streetpass and Near, that I gather, is that Near tracks your movements as well as those of others for the last 24 hours, and can compare, even server-side (?) if you've been close to each other, even retroactively (a.k.a. 'offline'). So basically, all it needs is a startpoint and an endpoint, and then even if it didn't have any gps, wifi or 3g connection at that time, it will interpolate your movement from point a to b, and estimate if you 'met' someone along the way. I think you can even see on the Near map which of the two it has done, as one has a different footstep color from the other or something. This has an advantage over streetpass already just in terms of powersaving, because streetpass won't do anything but detect actual signals of other 3DSs, the way I understand.

 

[tuna]

With Vita, can you copy videos and music over DLNA? Can you copy whole folders as well?

 

[patsu]

With Vita, can you copy videos and music over DLNA? Can you copy whole folders as well?

DLNA support is not in yet. It was only mentioned in one of the Playstation presentations.

For now, you can use RemotePlay to control DLNA playback via PS3. ^_^

I bought the Vita cradle and car charger. The moment Vita supports DLNA, I will probably change my in-car stereo to a new one that supports Bluetooth/WiFi (AirPlay/DLNA) so that I can play from Vita and iOS wirelessly.

 

[patsu]

So, the important difference between Streetpass and Near, that I gather, is that Near tracks your movements as well as those of others for the last 24 hours, and can compare, even server-side (?) if you've been close to each other, even retroactively (a.k.a. 'offline'). So basically, all it needs is a startpoint and an endpoint, and then even if it didn't have any gps, wifi or 3g connection at that time, it will interpolate your movement from point a to b, and estimate if you 'met' someone along the way. I think you can even see on the Near map which of the two it has done, as one has a different footstep color from the other or something. This has an advantage over streetpass already just in terms of powersaving, because streetpass won't do anything but detect actual signals of other 3DSs, the way I understand.

StreetPass

* Works automatically via local wireless connection to detect nearby 3DSes and exchange items.

* You can turn off StreetPass, and turn it on based on specific games

* Calculates number of steps using the built-in 3DS pedometer to earn coins. You can use the coins to exchange/buy items. This encourages people to take 3DS out.

* StreetPass games use the exchanged info to enrich their experience (e.g., You may meet the Mii avatars of StreetPass'ed folks in an RPG game).


Near

* Works with manual or periodic GPS/SkyHook location updates. Your location is sent to the Near servers to match other users. So you don't have to be at the same place at the same time. The Near server will respond with a list of nearby users within a max. range, and duration.

[EDIT: To find the players you met in the StreetPass sense, look for the "players encountered" stats. I have "encountered" 3 Vita users so far.]

* You can turn off Near entirely, or turn it off based on the Private Games setting, or based on the Private Zones setting. You can set up to 5 Private Zones using an embedded Google Maps widget.

* Calculate the distance in km/miles you have traveled. There is no reward for your trips.

* Near also allows third parties to add items for exchange between gamers (e.g., Uncharted introduced a Black Market for treasure trading but I have not tried it yet). I think Nintendo's StreetPass mini-games are more interesting so far.


This is where the similarity ends. Near adds more analytics and built-in activities about Vita games and players in general. It will alert you of new games or new gamers encountered in your community, or if a game has surged in popularity, etc.

Near is not restricted to nearby players. It also has screens for your friends list, and strangers you have played against previously.

StreetPass is better integrated with the Nintendo ecosystem (See the Mii example above). Near doesn't know about PS Home.

 

[patsu]

PS Vita System Software Update (v1.61):
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/02/20/ps-vita-system-software-update-v1-61/

In preparation for Wednesday’s wide release of PS Vita, tonight we’re making System Software Update (v1.61) available for download. If you are just turning on your PlayStation Vita for the first time, this
update will add the following features:

A new application, (Maps), has been added to the home screen.

In addition to photos, you can now take videos using the Photo application.

You can now publish stories about the products that you rate in PlayStation Store to Facebook.

In Near, players’ information is now displayed on the Discoveries screen. On this screen, a list of the online IDs of up to 100 players that you have encountered, and the number of times that you encountered each player, are displayed. Tap an online ID to display that player’s profile screen.

The Mac OS version of Content Manager Assistant for PlayStation has been released. The Windows version has also been updated.

You can download Content Manager Assistant from here. Refer to the website to find out how to install the application.

If you have already updated your PS Vita to 1.60, 1.61 will improve certain aspects of the system software.

1.61 probably improves the stability of the system. Occasionally, Vita would sleep and never wakes up (particularly for 3G Vita).

 

[Gitaroo]

I thought 1.60 already have maps, anyone, I really hope they can improve the content manger, I cant transfer my Ys Chronicles over where others ppl can. Didnt Kaz Hirai also said Netflix on day 1 during CES? I guess it will be released under Vita apps or something. Hopefully, DLNA, skype will follow soon.

 

[patsu]

I thought 1.60 already have maps, anyone, I really hope they can improve the content manger, I cant transfer my Ys Chronicles over where others ppl can. Didnt Kaz Hirai also said Netflix on day 1 during CES? I guess it will be released under Vita apps or something. Hopefully, DLNA, skype will follow soon.

The 1.61 description is probably for release day buyers, who will receive Vita with 1.01 firmware. The First Edition Bundle people already applied 1.60, which includes the Maps app.

According to GAF, Ys Chronicles is incompatible with Vita at this point. So it should not be transferable to Vita.

Yes, NetFlix was (is ?) shooting for Day 1. Perhaps we will see it tomorrow or soonish.

 

[Phil]

I've just started reading up on vita and I must say, I'm really itching to get one. I'm pretty sure I'll just get the Wifi one. The 3G one - are there any additional costs? Do you need to pay a monthly fee for the 3G service by a provider or is the fee included as a fix-cost when you buy it as the more expensive package (the 3G is about $40 more expensive overhere). Or is this different from region to region?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yes, NetFlix was (is ?) shooting for Day 1. Perhaps we will see it tomorrow or soonish.

Last week on the Official PlayStation Blogcast they said Netflix, Twitter, Flickr and Facebook apps would all go up during the regular PlayStation Store update this week. So those four should be available within hours.

I've just started reading up on vita and I must say, I'm really itching to get one. I'm pretty sure I'll just get the Wifi one. The 3G one - are there any additional costs? Do you need to pay a monthly fee for the 3G service by a provider or is the fee included as a fix-cost when you buy it as the more expensive package (the 3G is about $40 more expensive overhere). Or is this different from region to region?

It's different region to region. Generally it's pay as you go data service. No contracts, but whether you're buying monthly or topping up data will vary. It's not like the Kindl where free data for life was included in the base price. The model is basically identical to the iPad. In the US it's tied to AT&T. European models are unlocked, with "preferred" providers. Japan uses Docomo, I believe.

In the US, at least, all 3G models (excluding the First Edition Bundles that went on sale last week) include a free month, a copy of Super Stardust Delta and an 8GB memory stick. The game and the stick alone basically cover the price premium over Wifi, so even for people who don't really plan on using 3G, it's hard not to recommend that model anyway.

 

[Phil]

It's different region to region. Generally it's pay as you go data service. No contracts, but whether you're buying monthly or topping up data will vary. It's not like the Kindl where free data for life was included in the base price. The model is basically identical to the iPad. In the US it's tied to AT&T. European models are unlocked, with "preferred" providers. Japan uses Docomo, I believe.

In the US, at least, all 3G models (excluding the First Edition Bundles that went on sale last week) include a free month, a copy of Super Stardust Delta and an 8GB memory stick. The game and the stick alone basically cover the price premium over Wifi, so even for people who don't really plan on using 3G, it's hard not to recommend that model anyway.

Thanks. I guess it was a bit of ignorance on my part to think that you'd get around a service data package if I'd go for the 3G version one. So I am right to assume that there's somewhere a slot for a SIM card?

Anyway, that is good news all the more for me, because it means I'll be getting the wifi one only. I'm not to interested in playing on-the-go and I'm happy to just use my wifi connection at home. With the battery life concerns, I guess it's something that will be turned off most of the time anyway (I would think wifi is about the same costly as using 3g if my phone is anything to go by).

The only other big concern I have now is multi-language in games. Does anyone know if the retail games are multi-language (at least, including English as a minimum)? I'm thinking especially about Uncharted here. And what about the games that are sold through PSN?

Since the portable is tied to one region account at a time, accessing a 'German' PSN region might yield german software - which is something I'm definately not interested in.

 

[wco81]

FWIW, I think Verizon or AT&T is offering $100 off any tablet or console (maybe that excludes Vita, but not sure) if you sign onto 2 years of Mifi service.

Of course, you're paying out ridiculous sums of money for that, like $50 a month.

But if you must play games on the go, I'm guessing 3G isn't good enough. It would have to be 4G or Wifi.

Has anyone tried to play online games of FIFA (does it support online play?) on 3G?

 

[patsu]

Thanks. I guess it was a bit of ignorance on my part to think that you'd get around a service data package if I'd go for the 3G version one. So I am right to assume that there's somewhere a slot for a SIM card?

Anyway, that is good news all the more for me, because it means I'll be getting the wifi one only. I'm not to interested in playing on-the-go and I'm happy to just use my wifi connection at home. With the battery life concerns, I guess it's something that will be turned off most of the time anyway (I would think wifi is about the same costly as using 3g if my phone is anything to go by).

The only other big concern I have now is multi-language in games. Does anyone know if the retail games are multi-language (at least, including English as a minimum)? I'm thinking especially about Uncharted here. And what about the games that are sold through PSN?

Since the portable is tied to one region account at a time, accessing a 'German' PSN region might yield german software - which is something I'm definately not interested in.

You can keep games from different regions on the same memory card. Unfortunately, switching account takes a few minutes because you need to reset the console. I bought Uncharted, WipeOut and Hotshot Golf yesterday from GameStop's B2G1 free deal. I doubt the US version supports multi-lingual. Will let you know how Uncharted handles multi-lingual later today.

The minimal value of 3G is the built-in GPS. A few games have 3G MP game modes, but I have not tried them yet. e.g., Gust new game is designed with 3G in mind. They picked Vita as the platform partly because of 3G support. I don't know if the developers meant GPS or 3G data. Here's more info on "Ciel no Surge":
http://andriasang.com/comzqv/surge_concerto_life_sim/

Has anyone tried to play online games of FIFA (does it support online play?) on 3G?

Yes it supports online but it's incompatible with the home console's FIFA 12 because the development time wasn't aligned ideally. They will aim for cross-play for the next game. I don't think there's 3G game mode for FIFA. Ridge Racer, Musou, Monster Radar have 3G game modes though.

 

[wco81]

So, no, they would never do that. The important question you have to ask yourself here is 'more competitive at what'? It will take a long time before phones and pads have more powerful hardware at comparable prices (though perhaps not that long), but then it will take a lot longer than that before the hardware is powerful enough to absorb the additional abstraction layer that iOS/Android/Metro bring.

At least that is my understanding. The Vita would be more compelling at $99 with all its analog sticks, dual touch-screens, dual cams, gyros and what not when it has a large selection of games that also makes the most of its quad-core gpu and cpu, and it will be a long time before any similarly priced phone or tablet device can offer anything of the sort.

Yeah if they can drop the price down to $99 two years from now, it will be competitive. But if they're at no lower than $200, I'm not sure its graphics will stand out as much. Certainly may be better in all the metrics but for more casual observers, smart phone and tablet graphics will seem very good, even if they don't actually have the same kinds of games and obviously the same kind of controls.

iPad 3 is about to be launched in the next month. If the sales for that go crazy, like at least a couple of million units a month, it will draw money from many buyers who might have considered the Vita otherwise.

I'm not sure Sony could afford to go with the same performance profile in a portable device for 5 years or more any more. Drastic price drops would keep the demand up but those $40 and $50 games will mute enthusiasm for the device. The fact that they're doing 3 for 2 games deals at US launch should indicate that demand for games at those prices are not going to fly.

 

[patsu]

I may upgrade my iPad to iPad 3 this year, depending on what Apple introduces next.

Vita is targeted at core gamers at the moment. If Sony introduces services/apps to integrate Vita in the iOS ecosystem, I think it will complement Apple well. There are things Apple would never ever do, but Sony can/will. As Vita's price drops, Sony should be able to find some unique yet mainstream ideas to appeal to the average users.

iOS is general purpose, so the resources allocated for games will be rationed. Vita is designed from the ground up for entertainment and gaming. It makes very specific compromises and optimization to accommodate a game's run-time (e.g., closer-to-hardware programmatic access). So it should be more competitive than an equivalently spec'ed (or even higher spec'ed) device.

Making Vita phones and tablets is possible too, but it will take time. The Vita OS is young. Unless Sony lean heavily on commercial partners and the open source community, it's difficult for them to put an advanced and full-featured OS together in such a short time. [Cue jeff_rigby's PS3/Vita open source packages talk]. In the short term, I think they can use Android/iOS to fill in the gaps, and grab mindshare + marketshare first.

xbd's concerns are valid, but I think Sony will have to weigh their risks and options carefully.

 

[Butta]

Does anyone know if all the movies I have bought from the PSN Network will be available for download or would I need to buy them again?

 

[ERP]

The comparison with IPad isn't really applicable.

Vita is very much a game machine targeted at core gamers, it'll see games with higher production values regardless of the relative performance with an IPad 3 because of that.
I've spent more on games on my Vita in 4 days than I've spent on games on my IPad in almost 2 years.

They're different devices, I'll probably upgrade my IPad 1 this year, though I'm not sure I'd bother if apple could manage to write apps that don't run out of memory on IPad 1's

 

[wco81]

Of course they're aimed at different markets. But core gamers or those who might have considered the Vita will be among those who buy iPads for other uses.

These people may defer or even decide not to buy a Vita, especially if they already have a console.

 

[patsu]

Does anyone know if all the movies I have bought from the PSN Network will be available for download or would I need to buy them again?

HD rented and purchased movies don't work on Vita. I guess we can tweet Shuhei and complain since Vita supposedly plays 720p videos.

SD rented and purchased movies do work on Vita. I tried several myself.