Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[patsu]

Can someone answer these questions for me:

1. Is the Vita fully intergrated into the PS Suite?

It's the other way round. Playstation Suite is integrated into Vita OS, like how WebKit, .NET sit on top of Mac OSX, Windows, Linux, etc.

2. Can all PS Suite apps work in Vita and vice versa?

Kaz Hirai created PS Suite to unify and extend Playstation. Major PS Suite apps should work on all Playstation certified hardware. This includes Vita, PS3, Tablet S, Tablet P, some Xperia phones. Their next TV may be PS (Suite) certified too. They are willing/keen to add third party devices under the PS Suite umbrella also.

3. Is PS Suite the base OS for all Sony Ericson phones?

No. It's the application run-time above the base OS. Based on Mono, it includes GUI building tools, C# language run-time, and Playstation oriented class libraries. It's like Microsoft's .NET framework but for games.

4. Can Sony mobile users fully interact with Vita owners?

What do you mean by interact ? Vita has PSN, FaceBook, FourSquare, Twitter, Skype and Flickr apps. The quality of these apps will dictate how well Vita users interact with the rest of the world. Not sure if these apps are running on top of PS Suite (They should if Sony and partners want to save resources).

If you're asking about a special mechanism for Sony phones to talk to Vita exclusively, there is none. Once the app is on PS Suite, it should run on all PS Suite hardware, not just Vita or Sony mobile devices.


Don't know how Sony intend to integrate WebKit and Mono though, since they are both app frameworks specialized for different experiences. Both Vita and PS3 have a WebKit run-time.

 

[RobertR1]

It's the other way round. Playstation Suite is integrated into Vita OS, like how WebKit, .NET sit on top of Mac OSX, Windows, Linux, etc.



Kaz Hirai created PS Suite to unify and extend Playstation. Major PS Suite apps should work on all Playstation certified hardware. This includes Vita, PS3, Tablet S, Tablet P, some Xperia phones. Their next TV may be PS (Suite) certified too. They are willing/keen to add third party devices under the PS Suite umbrella also.



No. It's the application run-time above the base OS. Based on Mono, it includes GUI building tools, C# language run-time, and Playstation oriented class libraries. It's like Microsoft's .NET framework but for games.



What do you mean by interact ? Vita has PSN, FaceBook, FourSquare, Twitter, Skype and Flickr apps. The quality of these apps will dictate how well Vita users interact with the rest of the world. Not sure if these apps are running on top of PS Suite (They should if Sony and partners want to save resources).

If you're asking about a special mechanism for Sony phones to talk to Vita exclusively, there is none. Once the app is on PS Suite, it should run on all PS Suite hardware, not just Vita or Sony mobile users.


Don't know how Sony intend to integrate WebKit and Mono though, since they are both app frameworks specialized for different experiences. Both Vita and PS3 have a WebKit run-time.

Thanks for the info. Basically, my thought process is that Vita's success won't be based on games. Games will be just another feature and they'll have to make the device an app hub.

Any app you buy on Vita should be able usable across their phones and other platforms.

Example: If someone is playing Words With Friends on the Vita, they should be able to play with their friends who have Sony phones and so on. They need to provide the communication layer for app developers so that it's easy to implement across all platforms.

The OS on the Vita needs to be EASY! to use for normal people.

Their marketing should be focused on the Vita as a apps and entertainment hub, not just a new gaming device.

This needs to be their approach for the US market if they want to have a shot of breatking through. Otherwise, you'll see hardcore and Sony loyalist buying the Vita and then it's sales bottoming out quickly.

By late 2012, Vita's future will be more or less written in the US. Sony have a narrow window in which to execute right. If they go in with their "we'll improve over time..." mentality they have done with other products, it'll be a quick death.

 

[patsu]

PS Suite is a very difficult strategy to execute. The only reason why Sony may want to go there is because they are already on that boat. They have too many SKUs, OSes, devices, sites to deal with. Without a common layer, it would be too costly to maintain.

Along with PS Suite, they may also need to cut down on their too-diverse product lines. They will also need to be very selective on what to do/promote first (Focus, focus, focus).



Sony's strength (compared to Apple and Google) is in games and the Playstation userbase. IMHO, they should focus on gaming but with broader and deeper appeal than today. Keep thinking and innovating on new and old form of games + media, and make them fun/addictive (instead of frustrating like LBP) to play. There are "games" everywhere: Education, music, finance, etc. Something like Phil Harrison's Game 3.0 presentation would be suitable for 2006, but what now ?

Without any special angle, the non-games are hygiene factors. If these apps are simply standalone software like iOS apps, then they wiill have minimal positive impact. In fact, shoddy Vita apps may further convince consumers that Sony is "clueless". OTOH, if these apps are well implemented, someone on OS/Android will just copy them.

Ideally, Sony should assimilate these non-games into their strength. e.g., Turn/integrate them into part of gaming experience in a uniform way (Instead of game-by-game features). Or tap into their content library for exclusive deals. Assimilate better with existing "old school" channels like Blu-ray and DVD library. Or introduce interesting hardware to complement the software stack.

Unfortunately, based on SCEJ's Vita alarm clock and doodling pad app announcement in Asia Game Show, I think SCEJ is not there yet. They may be too tied up in the implementation of regular PS Suite and Vita features.



A family of "game enhanced" FaceBook, Twitter, Google maps, etc. for Playstation Suite would be interesting. Sony never did get the scope right in PS3 apps like Photo Gallery, Life with Playstation, PS Home, XMB chatroom, etc. They got some of the concepts right, and before everyone else. Unfortunately, they didn't go far enough to make any real difference.

 

[patsu]

Vita's web browser conformance tests and benchmarks:
http://translate.google.com/transla...1&u=http://www.roshi.tv/2011/12/psvitano.html

I remember PS3 web browser scores a mere 27/100 in ACID3. Vita's WebKit browser scores 99/100.

It doesn't fare as well in HTML5 compared to Chrome (66 vs 357 on Chrome).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then why not port that webkit browser to PS3?!!?! Heck, even just release a YouTube app. ND's in-game YouTube stream is better quality than PS3's browser.

 

[Npl]

Then why not port that webkit browser to PS3?!!?! Heck, even just release a YouTube app. ND's in-game YouTube stream is better quality than PS3's browser.

I hope the PSSuite will require a webkit or webkit-quality html5+javascript component. That way Sony needs to get it ported or atleast the PS3`s browser vastly improved.
You cant expect Sony to do stuff just because it makes sense

 

[Arwin]

I hope the PSSuite will require a webkit or webkit-quality html5+javascript component. That way Sony needs to get it ported or atleast the PS3`s browser vastly improved.
You cant expect Sony to do stuff just because it makes sense

I hope that PSSuite will get stuff like YouTube apps at least, though I thought that Vita would get a native YouTube App as well.

Then hopefully PSSuite is ported to PS3 as well, so that PSSuite apps can work on all platforms. It may be tricky though as the PS3 would be the only 'non-touch' version, and that could be difficult to solve (though of course they could at least implement Move support )

Glad to see the browser is half-decent. Hopefully they put in some more HTML5 support and audio features at some point.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then hopefully PSSuite is ported to PS3 as well, so that PSSuite apps can work on all platforms. It may be tricky though as the PS3 would be the only 'non-touch' version, and that could be difficult to solve (though of course they could at least implement Move support )

They could implement a rough dual-stick system, controlling two cursors and with the triggers to activate touch. Ultimately it'd be a good way to promot Move, although the camera setup for Move is a bit of a faf and you'd need to have it always in if Move became a regular feature.

Glad to see the browser is half-decent. Hopefully they put in some more HTML5 support and audio features at some point.

I'm not sure what to think at this point! That the browser works well is good. That it's behind the times isn't, and if PS3 is anything to go by, I couldn't be confident the browser will be brought up to speed. It should be, but I can't be confident. And there's still little public discussion of PSS. Sony need content to appear on Vita so potential buyers see it as a living, growing platform, and not a possible dead end. PSS apps are only a possibility at this point, and not a reality, meaning it might never happen. Given Sony's internal mess, it's still unclear what'll happen.

 

[dobwal]

What Vita needs the most is games. Full blown Vita titles that really takes advantage of the hardware in terms of both performance and control scheme. A full on portable game experience that only a fully equip portable handheld can provide.

Everything else is icing on the cake. It would be nice if Vita can take part in the Android and PS3 ecosystem but that is far less important than providing a great core experience. Vita will be a failure if Sony and developers simply adopt a primary strategy of taking whats typically found on a Android/iOS phone or PS360 console and make that the primary experience of Vita.

The core experience means everything and everything else will look superfluous if Vita doesn't provide a library of strong unique experiences. (Time to break out a car analogy for the umpteenth time) I'll lose interest the moment I find out your sportscar does 0-60 in 30 seconds and takes a corner like an ice cream truck regardless of how great its built or how great the ancillary features may be.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But the games are covered. We know that. And that's where the appeal ends. It'd be easy for Sony to stretch Vita's appeal in different directions without adversely affecting it's core experience. It's first party teams will be beavering away on games and would never be repurposed to make apps or the like, I'm sure. Sony just need to make good with their previous talk and the system potential. Why talk about PSS as a cross-platform development environment if all they're going to do with it is launch a few PSOne games across Sony's tablets? They need to show PSS is going somewhere.

 

[patsu]

What Vita needs the most is games. Full blown Vita titles that really takes advantage of the hardware in terms of both performance and control scheme. A full on portable game experience that only a fully equip portable handheld can provide.

Everything else is icing on the cake. It would be nice if Vita can take part in the Android and PS3 ecosystem but that is far less important than providing a great core experience. Vita will be a failure if Sony and developers simply adopt a primary strategy of taking whats typically found on a Android/iOS phone or PS360 console and make that the primary experience of Vita.

The core experience means everything and everything else will look superfluous if Vita doesn't provide a library of strong unique experiences. (Time to break out a car analogy for the umpteenth time) I'll lose interest the moment I find out your sportscar does 0-60 in 30 seconds and takes a corner like an ice cream truck regardless of how great its built or how great the ancillary features may be.

I agree ! But at the same time, the definition of games/entertainment is shifting too. The web is a fertile ground for new form of "games" or gaming ideas.

Some so-called "new" entertainment experience will tank. As long as they keep rolling out entertaining/fun software on Vita, I think they should be ok.

Don't throw meaningless utilities like Alarm Clock at us though. At least integrate it into some sort of entertainment service/app/game.

 

[wco81]

Remains to be seen how big a market there is for the "full on" experience.

Especially when it requires another device and expensive games.

The "full on" experience is already available on consoles, on a big screen, with games being discounted for these consoles which are at the end of their cycles.

 

[patsu]

As a late device to the scene ? It will be an uphill battle, but it is still possible to differentiate and groom your own crowd starting from the existing Playstation userbase.

An open/abstraction platform like PS Suite (on "all" devices) *may* cover more base though, depending on whether Sony falls down during execution. ^_^

 

[patsu]

Vita's web browser conformance tests and benchmarks:
http://translate.google.com/transla...1&u=http://www.roshi.tv/2011/12/psvitano.html

I remember PS3 web browser scores a mere 27/100 in ACID3. Vita's WebKit browser scores 99/100.

It doesn't fare as well in HTML5 compared to Chrome (66 vs 357 on Chrome).

Comparison with other console web browsers:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34015375&postcount=1118

ACID3:

Vita - 99
3DS - 92
DSi - 59
Wii - 40 then crashes
Ps3 - 27
PSP - 11

HTML5 Tests:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34015673&postcount=1119

Nintendo 3DS : 120 + 0 Bonus Points
Sony PSVita : 66 + 0 Bonus Points

 

[Teasy]

Latest Media Create numbers:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| System - This Week - Last Week - Last Year ----- YTD -------- Last YTD ------ LTD ----
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS ------ 197,952 ---- 482,200 -------- 0 ------- 4,282,142 ---------- 0 -------- 4,282,143 |
| PS3 ------- 67,199 ------ 75,943 ----- 76,422 --- 1,548,895 --- 1,586,122 --- 7,636,385 |
| PSP ------- 62,746 ----- 101,121 ---- 99,703 ---- 2,079,152 -- 2,898,041 -- 18,729,363 |
| PSV ------- 42,648 ------ 72,479 --------- 0 ------- 439,986 -------------0 -------- 439,986 |
| WII -------- 33,208 ------- 91,176 ---- 77,307 ---- 883,583 ----- 1,674,438 --- 12,163,221 |
| NDS ------ 5,802 -------- 14,396 ----- 99,578 ---- 657,787 ----- 2,871,621 --- 32,808,486 |
| 360 ------- 2,453 -------- 4,245 ------- 3,708 ----- 115,548 ------ 210,826 ------1,536,045 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[patsu]

Latest Media Create numbers:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| System - This Week - Last Week - Last Year ----- YTD -------- Last YTD ------ LTD ----
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS ------ 197,952 ---- 482,200 -------- 0 ------- 4,282,142 ---------- 0 -------- 4,282,143 |
| PS3 ------- 67,199 ------ 75,943 ----- 76,422 --- 1,548,895 --- 1,586,122 --- 7,636,385 |
| PSP ------- 62,746 ----- 101,121 ---- 99,703 ---- 2,079,152 -- 2,898,041 -- 18,729,363 |
| PSV ------- 42,648 ------ 72,479 --------- 0 ------- 439,986 -------------0 -------- 439,986 |
| WII -------- 33,208 ------- 91,176 ---- 77,307 ---- 883,583 ----- 1,674,438 --- 12,163,221 |
| NDS ------ 5,802 -------- 14,396 ----- 99,578 ---- 657,787 ----- 2,871,621 --- 32,808,486 |
| 360 ------- 2,453 -------- 4,245 ------- 3,708 ----- 115,548 ------ 210,826 ------1,536,045 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3DS topping the industry after price drop and release of key franchises, just like DS did. It appears to cannibalize/replace DS.

Vita's price keeps PSP alive, like PS3 co-existing with PS2. Sony seems to be taking their slow poke approach again.

 

[Arwin]

Vita's price keeps PSP alive, like PS3 co-existing with PS2. Sony seems to be taking their slow poke approach again.

Doesn't make sense to compare Vita with PS3 when it is just doing the same as the last three handhelds released. It is even an exact duplicate of the 3DS launch so far, with the notable exception that at the Western launch key franchises will be present, which is not the case in Japan.

They could implement a rough dual-stick system, controlling two cursors and with the triggers to activate touch. Ultimately it'd be a good way to promot Move, although the camera setup for Move is a bit of a faf and you'd need to have it always in if Move became a regular feature.

True, but not a big problem for me. Literally 50% of my game time last year was with Move.

I'm not sure what to think at this point! That the browser works well is good. That it's behind the times isn't, and if PS3 is anything to go by, I couldn't be confident the browser will be brought up to speed.

True, but it's better than it's ever been at launch, and at least there is potential for it to get more. I guess that the biggest question mark here is their decision on whether they want to support it concurrent to games or not. If they want to do this (as they seem to have suggested) then they have to be more careful about when to enable which features, so that resources are properly and efficiently shared and switching between a game and the browser doesn't take too much time.

It should be, but I can't be confident. And there's still little public discussion of PSS. Sony need content to appear on Vita so potential buyers see it as a living, growing platform, and not a possible dead end. PSS apps are only a possibility at this point, and not a reality, meaning it might never happen. Given Sony's internal mess, it's still unclear what'll happen.

Yes, PSS is currently still closed beta, so you shouldn't hear much about it. The only confident thing to say about it is that a) it's pretty much Vital to Sony as a whole and b) so far almost everything Vita is on a tight schedule and meeting that schedule.

 

[Arwin]

Just saw this video, and that's definitely promising, suggesting that indeed the stills don't do the game justice, as the 'current-gen' shaders do their work rather nicely:

http://uk.ign.com/videos/2011/12/21/uncharted-golden-abyss-chapter-1-video?show=HD

 

[Teasy]

Doesn't make sense to compare Vita with PS3 when it is just doing the same as the last three handhelds released. It is even an exact duplicate of the 3DS launch so far, with the notable exception that at the Western launch key franchises will be present, which is not the case in Japan

How's that?

 

[Arwin]

How's that?

Same price, very similar numbers, similar limited software lineup (from a Japanese perspective)?