corduroygt
Banned
That survey is in Japan, I'm sure responses would be a lot different here in the US.
Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk
- Thread starter Farid
- Start date
corduroygt
Banned
Infinite respawning enemies killed that game for me.
Not to mention want does not equal buy...
Prophecy2k
Veteran
errrrr sorry my friend but i played through KZL many many many times, and whilst there's like only like one bit at the very end that has lots of respawning enemies, they are in now way infinite. The whole games is basically like this:- enter area
- kill the higs
- move on to the next area.
I don't know what version of the game you were playing mate, but "infinite respawning enemies" is definitely not a valid complaint for a game like that. Trust me ;-)
Anyways, i am actually really surprised by some of the comments in this thread. It's like people just want to ignore all the new features of the NGP and call it a PSP wiht better graphics. Like folks are completely ignoring the fact that even the "console staple" franchises that were shown, were shown to demonstrate some of the more innovative features of the device. I don't know where in Uncharted 1 or 2 on the PS3 we were able to use the motion positional sensors on the SIXAXIS to aim in a first person VR-like manner as was shown on NGP. I don't know a game on any console that let me use the back & front touch pad to affect & interact with the game world like was shown with Little Deviants.
Then you have the people saying with such confidence that it's gonna be $400 for sure, based purely on... well... nothing what so ever. I know that all the tech crammed in there might likely make it expensive, but i don't see how it would make it $400 expensive unless you're buying the OPTIONAL 3G SKU.
At this stage it just sounds like a lot of noise and people trolling without much info. at all. At least cautiously await the reveal of more software, the price, and many more details regarding it's gaming/non-gaming functionality without condemning it as an abject failure.
Half the people condemning the device now were the ones asking for the features they showed and demonstrated on stage for the device. And folks are still waiting for a "hook"?!?!? At this stage i just think that stuff like the Wii and Kinect have just made people into gimmick mongers. Sony has never sold hardware on Gimmicks, the 60+ million selling PSP wasn't sold on a gimmick, nor was the PSone, PS2 or PS3. I don't expect Sony to change their philosophy now, as i think there is a large population out there that can appreciate a gaming platform that takes a more wholistic approach, covering all the bases rather than just being a one-trick pony. I think the many millions of Playstation console owners (both home and portable) justifies my view.
If Sony can do what they've already said they're targeting and sell as many PSP2s as PSPs, then sans the piracy (as long as they can keep it under control this time), and along with the new HW features (not just the extra proc. power) then they will sell alot of software both in Japan and WW... dare i say whether they sell many units in NA or not (sometimes i think some of you folk think NA is the only region of importance to gaming companies).
Above all, it feels early to discuss it in too much detail. We'll probably have to wait first for GDC to get more details on the technical, software and services side, and then till E3 for the commercial options.
For the device to be a real runaway success, I do believe that its services are going to be crucial. Something like the Playstation Suite needs to be at least as easy to get new games from as it currently from the iStore (though I have good confidence in that - PSN store on PSP isn't that bad as it is now), but it would also be nice if it is as easy for developers to get smaller games on there as it is now on iOS.
I don't believe that this would compete with the big titles at all, by the way. It would just enhance the general appeal of the device, offering both the small time wasters and the big stuff.
I do believe, like many, that the Playstation Suite is key to the NGP becoming a big success. Ideally this becomes the de-facto way to distribute games on Android and allows games targetting android to work flawlessly on the NGP. Together with QRiocity support this could work well.
But those are 'ifs' and there are definitely a bunch of important things here that need to be addressed. And currently, Sony hasn't the track record, and has a lot to prove.
For the device to be a real runaway success, I do believe that its services are going to be crucial. Something like the Playstation Suite needs to be at least as easy to get new games from as it currently from the iStore (though I have good confidence in that - PSN store on PSP isn't that bad as it is now), but it would also be nice if it is as easy for developers to get smaller games on there as it is now on iOS.
I don't believe that this would compete with the big titles at all, by the way. It would just enhance the general appeal of the device, offering both the small time wasters and the big stuff.
I do believe, like many, that the Playstation Suite is key to the NGP becoming a big success. Ideally this becomes the de-facto way to distribute games on Android and allows games targetting android to work flawlessly on the NGP. Together with QRiocity support this could work well.
But those are 'ifs' and there are definitely a bunch of important things here that need to be addressed. And currently, Sony hasn't the track record, and has a lot to prove.
Thats a generic game design issue that applies for any platform
Prophecy2k
Veteran
Arwin if it's the UI you're referring to then even the current form of PSN is far and away miles better than the AppStore. Many Apple fanboys may not agree with me but the AppStore is a bloody mess in my opinion (talking only about the UI). For a store that's meant to cater to many more casual folks looking for little apps and games to entertain them, it's just not user-friendly. Why should i need to know the name of an app to find it on the store? How come i can't just browse and A-Z list of every game on the AppStore? I find it clunky and horrible. I much prefer PSN.
Don't even get me started on iTunes too ;-) well... the PC version anyways.
What Apple gets right is the content itself on offer, the ease of allowing content creators to get their stuff on there, as well as the aesthetic and functional design of the HW used to playback the content. Sony ticks two outta three, and with PS Suite they have an opportunity to hit a home-run.
Of course then there's the mind share, but as i've always said Sony and Nintendo don't need to emulate Apple directly. They just need to do what they do best and cover as much as what Apple does as possible. The market i believe can support all three parties, so long as each caters to their own specific target demographic adequately.
You're not doing the App Store justice. First of all, there are 300.000 apps on there. That's about 12000 apps per letter of the alphabet. Have fun browsing an A-Z list. And because there are a large number of alternatives for almost anything you look for, it is just more efficient generally to use search. When you do the search, you get a lot of good suggestions for earlier searches, which often will include the name of the app you were looking for if you knew the name of the app in the first place (which I often don't, as I generally look for an app with a specific function.
Apart from that interface, there are the same kind of highlights that the PSN store has, there are the same kind of categories, there's a Top 25 (and you can expand that list to 50/75 etc dynamically), and updates are also conveniently highlighted (on PSP you need to startup the application before you know there's an update).
Then there are the user ratings (which PSN now also has) as well as comments (which PSN) doesn't, and screenshots (which PSN also has). PSN sometimes has movies, this is an advantage vs the iPhone store, but I don't know that these movies are available on PSN on the PSP.
Apart from that, you can easily link to apps on the internet which will then bring you to the correct item both in iTunes on your PSP and in the App Store on your iPhone.
And then of course actually installing the App is very nice looking - you immediately get the icon where the App is installing, with a loading bar showing installation progress. All this is independent of foreground/background unlike on PSP or even PS3.
iTunes isn't great on either, but it is more than good enough. Sony's version is pretty similar these days.
Yeah, that uncertain ~15% would swing towards "must buy".
This vitriol towards the PlayStation brand is fantastic. Putting all those options in the hands of the developers is awesome. There won't be a lack of "small" games because the market is already saturated with them so we don't need to worry about it only having complex games. But the options are there for a developer that wants to push the envelope.
Can someone explain why having more options would be bad for developers? Again, the device will have no problem getting the Bejeweleds and Angry Birds of this world.
Not quite for the DS and 3DS because the hardware has features that differentiate them immediately from other home consoles (touch screen, auto-stereoscopic display).
I don't think people are looking for more options per se. Without much info, they may be looking for (hints of) a unique and better experience that they can't get elsewhere.
Without which, Sony will need to deliver unique experiences via pure software (on top of hardware power and familiar control schemes).
But of course, the survey reflects positive interest nonetheless… given that many gamers in Japan has already bought into mobile gaming.
Sony has also covered cellphone gaming with Playstation Suite + Xperia Play + DoCoMo in Japan.
I'm not sure they can get all of these control options elsewhere though. That's the point. Developers have a plethora of control options together for the first time and in a portable. That's power for creative developers just as the Wii and Kinect were.
Sure, but the games are likely to follow certain archetypes: Dual stick NGP games can be compared to home consoles games, touchscreen and motion gaming titles can be compared to iPhone and DS ones. Hence, it is not so unique. The experience will be familiar to gamers in general. That may or may not be a good thing (e.g., core gamers should welcome dual sticks on NGP, but they may be able to enjoy the games better on PS3). It depends mostly on how the NGP software is designed.
The one thing thats clearly different and improved about the NGP vs the PSP is the true dual sticks.
Whether this will matter in helping it overcome some of PSP's problems or not I dont know. But it's pretty much the one thing I can look at NGP and say "this is not just a PSP2".
I think their best bet will be to try to get a popular COD game on there (I know one is coming, but I'm not sure how popular it will be) COD is incredibly important in todays market. If they could get the millions of little COD-philes to cotton to NGP it would be big.
Whether this will matter in helping it overcome some of PSP's problems or not I dont know. But it's pretty much the one thing I can look at NGP and say "this is not just a PSP2".
I think their best bet will be to try to get a popular COD game on there (I know one is coming, but I'm not sure how popular it will be) COD is incredibly important in todays market. If they could get the millions of little COD-philes to cotton to NGP it would be big.
Let's not forget about touchscreen, improved resolution and hardware that should enable casual gaming, some sort of multitasking for non gaming functionality, web browsing, skype (who knows) and so on that was either very awful or completely impossible on all or some psp's.
Yap !
...although there will be some who want a different (enough) gaming experience compared to their PS3 and 360. Not sure if the "continue gaming on NGP" feature is a selling point yet.
Sony may need to work/think harder.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
You're missing the most important and most obvious fact that all of these control options can be utilised together for a truly unique experience that gamers have never had before. For heavens sake, this device is absolutely loaded:
- Dual sticks
- Buttons
- Gyros and accelerometer
- Front touch screen
- Back touch screen
- front and rear facing camera
- GPS and Wi-Fi (plus 3G on select units)
All applicable to both gaming and non-gaming applications. All available to all developers of the device and all available on every single unit (bar 3G).
To assume every game on the device will be familiar to what gamers and people already know because each of the disparate parts have existed before on various different platforms (but never all on the same device) is in my view rather closed-minded to say the least.
What made the iphone and itouch so interesting both to devs and consumers was not only the use of touch screen for gaming (we'd seen that before) but the use of the motion sensors and various other HW features too for games and non-game apps. NGP basically takes this premise and mutliplies it by adding every possible control interface option possible for a completely multi-faceted device. If that isn't unique then i don't know what it is.
Plus i really fail to see how the 3DS should get a free pass if we're talking about software experiences that console gamers are familiar with, as outside of the 3D gimmick, which beyond the initial "wooos and aaaahs" has barely any bearing on gameplay functionality at all, the 3DS is basically just an up-rezzed DS with 3D. Hardly any more "unique" than NGP in my view (far less in my eyes).
Your example confuses me. If die size is the constraint WRT retail price (ceteris paribus), then a smaller process would get you either more speed (more transistors at a given die size) or a lower price (same transistors, smaller die size), not both. So this theoretical later, more powerful PS3 should not cost less than this theoretical X360 because once the X360 starts using 65nm it will drop its price.
TL,DR: launching later on a smaller process will allow a console to be faster or cheaper, not both, all else being equal.
Well technically it could be both, just not as much as either/or. If that makes any sense.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Smaller die size means more chips per wafer which means less cost per chip and smaller die process generally means a smaller/thiner transistor junction size which makes it more efficient. Efficient can translate into a faster speed or less power consumption at slower speeds not both. Smaller die size can be both cheaper and faster.
You can pack more transistors into the same real estate with smaller die sizes but I assume we are talking about the same ICs, same amount of transistors just smaller die size.
28nm is happening all over the world late this year and it's supposed to be about 40% more efficient than 40nm which is the current standard. NGP is scheduled for release at about the same time 28nm is supposed to go on line. I suspect the NGP will be 28nm. Sony is getting a very limited number of NGP units for developers possibly because 28nm yield at this time is low. Sony has been questioned about regional or world wide release for NGP. I expect the answer for that is not known yet.... as it depends on the foundry yield.
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