Well I wanted to get a Macbook recently but in general wherever I checked an Apple computer with the same specs as another PC or laptop its sold at double the price. I didnt have that money so I ended up with a laptop. I think they are getting a very sizable margin. Much bigger than that that other competitors are getting by selling PCs and laptops.
Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk
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Well I wanted to get a Macbook recently but in general wherever I checked an Apple computer with the same specs as another PC or laptop its sold at double the price. I didnt have that money so I ended up with a laptop. I think they are getting a very sizable margin. Much bigger than that that other competitors are getting by selling PCs and laptops.
Microsoft has already stated they won't jump in.
I don't think they'd fair too well, honestly. The best they could do is eek out some sales in the US, but would their adoption rates be anything impressive overseas?
I know that when MS entered the console arena people were skeptical, and to be fair they weren't majorly successful (apart from a few titles, like Halo). Then again they were prepared for a loss and it was deemed acceptable. It positioned them for the 360.
But with handhelds I just... Don't think there is enough room for a another portable gaming system. The 3DS is clearly targeted at everybody at any age just looking for some mobile fun, which as some multimedia functionality (like netflix) attached to it. The 3DS is simply very approachable and its games varied and fun.
The PSP2 (or..eh..NGP) is a high profile powerhouse of a portable device (say that 5 times fast) which will probably have tons of functionality outside of its great looking games. Skype, Netflix, maybe some sort of optional OS(?), PSN Store full of movies\rentals, probably a very capable web browser...
I mean what can MS bring to the table that these two don't in spades?
Even if their angle is "look at how powerful our machine is!" MS will be faced with 3 pretty huge problems.
1. Brand recognition in the portable gaming space (especially overseas).
2. Most interested gamers will have already purchased devices from Nintendo\Sony- will they really invest in this device which, while "more powerful" is more expensive and a much smaller platform? (that may fail).
3. Depending on when they jump in, the PSP2's cycle may be well under way in which case the next iteration of the Sony handheld will arrive relatively soon with some meaty tech behind it to take the crown away from MS again.
And yes, I know I'm hypothesizing here about some of the features these two devices will have.
MS can bring xbox live and have yet another device that connects to it .
PC , XBOX 360 , Win 7 phone , and xboy or what have you.
MS can offer true portable verisons of halo , gears and other titles.
I think it would sell well . Xbox is a strong brand now and is allways growing.
PC , XBOX 360 , Win 7 phone , and xboy or what have you.
MS can offer true portable verisons of halo , gears and other titles.
I think it would sell well . Xbox is a strong brand now and is allways growing.
$249. Apple has broken people's barometer for pricing in the portable sector because they've been able to command such a huge premium for the iPhone. The mark up last year was over 200% of their BOM. Nintendo hasn't helped with their egregious pricing of the 3DS. I firmly believe they built that thing to be really profitable at $179, and it is only the public reaction that has given them the confidence to charge so damn much for something that does so little.
Sony's R&D spending is far less this time around since they've gone with off the shelf CPU and GPU designs. They didn't develop a proprietary optical drive needing custom portable drives and specially outfitted manufacturing plants. They just have to stamp flash memory cards in the different shape. The screen is the most specialized component, and even OLEDs are more common than people seem to realize. Everything else is literally a commodity being produced by the hundreds of millions already.
And Sony has more experience and resources for building portable electronics than just about any other company in the world. I'm sure they built the NGP to be a $249 device, and right now they are just feeling out whether Nintendo's pricing of the 3DS and Apple's success with the iPad will let them charge more and sell it at a significant profit.
Sony's R&D spending is far less this time around since they've gone with off the shelf CPU and GPU designs. They didn't develop a proprietary optical drive needing custom portable drives and specially outfitted manufacturing plants. They just have to stamp flash memory cards in the different shape. The screen is the most specialized component, and even OLEDs are more common than people seem to realize. Everything else is literally a commodity being produced by the hundreds of millions already.
And Sony has more experience and resources for building portable electronics than just about any other company in the world. I'm sure they built the NGP to be a $249 device, and right now they are just feeling out whether Nintendo's pricing of the 3DS and Apple's success with the iPad will let them charge more and sell it at a significant profit.
on one side people are saying NGP wont do well because it's over kill & will cost too much, & because of the power it's going to end up with too many console ports,
now we have you saying it can't use it's power as a selling point for long if MS jumps in & has a even more powerful handheld that plays Halo & Gears of War
in other words it's whatever Sony does downplay it until someone else does it better
this handheld hasn't even come out yet & already there is a imaginary handheld that's going to be better than it that's going to give people a reason not to buy it.
OK so take away NPG's "graphics stick" now tell me what this imaginary handheld is going to bring to the table that make it so much different from NPG ,ipods\iphones , 3DS , android & windows7 phones that will make it a must buy when NPG isn't because you took away it's "graphics stick"?
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I don't expect MS to launch a handled system, they have already too much work to do on the mobility segment.
On the other hand I"m willing to put my hand on the PSP2 and see how the touchpad on the back fares. Sony possibly have something bright in its hands.
Actually it got me wondering about something, could a smart-phone with touch screen and back backed with more precise accelerometer and gyroscope could be t-he right combination for a modern portable gaming device? I insist on beter movement tracking as I find that actual devices (I've tried Iphone and Ipad and a HTC desire) are not precise enough in this regard. This three inputs altogether offer a lot of mean to control any games. To some extend while SOny put out a great idea they may have also set a consistent threat for themselves.
No, in other words it means different people have different perspectives, and you can't expect every individual opinion expressed in a thread to follow a cohesive, unified view where everyone is in absolute agreement!on one side people are saying NGP wont do well because it's over kill & will cost too much, & because of the power it's going to end up with too many console ports,
now we have you saying it can't use it's power as a selling point for long if MS jumps in & has a even more powerful handheld that plays Halo & Gears of War
in other words it's whatever Sony does downplay it until someone else does it better
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I think Microsoft will rather try to turn every WP7 into a console-like system.
Maybe they'll release a set of controller-like peripherals to make up for the touchscreen-only interface.
With such tight hardware requirements so far, it's fair to say the WP7 is as "closed" as the iOS in terms of hardware, which could allow them to hire developers to make/port AAA games for the platform with a high level of optimization for the hardware.
Sure, the 1st-gen Snapdragons have a weak GPU, but I could see the 2nd-gen WP7 devices requiring a dual-scorpion + adreno 220, which would change the game completely.
Maybe they'll release a set of controller-like peripherals to make up for the touchscreen-only interface.
With such tight hardware requirements so far, it's fair to say the WP7 is as "closed" as the iOS in terms of hardware, which could allow them to hire developers to make/port AAA games for the platform with a high level of optimization for the hardware.
Sure, the 1st-gen Snapdragons have a weak GPU, but I could see the 2nd-gen WP7 devices requiring a dual-scorpion + adreno 220, which would change the game completely.
true! but if you was Sony you would have to be really confused right now,
because they basically tried to give everyone what they asked for but it's never good enough or it's overkill no middle ground. Nintendo fans just enjoy the games they don't care that it's only 1 control nub & no R2 & L2 , Microsoft fans are happy about a handheld that don't even exist yet but when it does it's going to be the best thing in the world because it has Xbox Live.
but when you're Sony:
"We hate UMD's digital downloads is the future"
"PSP is too big"
they made the PSPgo
"has Sony lost their minds how am I going to play my UMD's I need physical media "
Sony never stopped making the PSP's that play UMD's
"too many console ports what's the point of having a handheld that only play games that I can play on the big screen?"
"the games are gimped because the PSP only have 1 control nub"
"touch gaming is the way to go PSP just don't have the right interface"
Sony made the NPG with all the bells & whistles they could think of
"this is going to cost a arm & a leg what is sony thinking why do we need 2 touch pads, 3G , OLED screen & so on "
"they should have stuck with the PSPgo design"
"it's too powerful & it's too easy to port console games to has sony learned anything from the mistake that was the PSP?
yeah it's powerful but it won't mean a thing once MS make a even more powerful handheld then what?
I don't want console ports but how am I going to play my PS3 ports without the R2 & L2 buttons"
nope they haven't learned a thing there is no touch controls & all the games will be PS3 ports with the same interface as the console with only one nub there is no touch controls so developers can make new types of games for the handheld & there is no PlayStation Suite that's made for making handheld friendly gaming
sorry for the rant but in a nutshell that's what I see mostly online
Edit: and right on time after I left this forum to do some web surfing I run into this within minutes of typing this SMH
http://casuallyhardcore.net/why-do-psp-haters-want-a-psp2/
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D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
Now let me stop you right there. First, let me tell you I have a PSP1000 and a PSP Go (which I bought for 90€ a couple of weeks ago through a possible labelling mistake).
First things first: the PSP Go is fantastic piece of hardware.
It is, even nowadays. The form factor is great (finally something that fits your pocket), the screen is bright, has no ghosting and has a decent ppi. The integrated 16GB + M2 expansion give you enough storage to make it a full portable media hub with music, videos and great games.
IMO, I even find the Go just as confortable to grip as bigger models.
Sony's hardware division came up with a spectacular refresh that could have boosted the existing platform's sales and mindshare to unimaginable heights.
Then came Sony's marketing and software division.. and they blew it. Bad.
Sony's marketing division decided the console would sell for 250€, which was plain ridiculous. You don't sell the refresh of a 5 year-old system for the same price as the original console was sold 5 years before (when it had state-of-the art technology).
And then the biggest mistake - the one that simply killed the PSP Go - was the fact that the games library through the PSN ended up very limited. There's a huge percentage of AAA games that never appeared (and will never appear) for the PSN, so the PSP Go could never play them.
Furthermore, if you already owned a PSP and bought some games, you would have to pay for them again in order to play them in the PSP Go. A simple UMD+PSP -> PSP Go conversion software for PC, or offering the same service in a retailer, would have resolved all the issues.
The game's available in PSN? Great, buy it through the online store. The developer decided to side with the retailers and have it only available to UMD? Buy the UMD, take the PSP Go to the retailer and have them transfer the game iso+license to the new console. Or if you own the older PSP, just do it at your home with the PC.
Regarding the PSP Go, you can see how the hardware department listened to the customers, and how the marketing and software\licensing screwed the console at its birth.
Well yes, the NGP shares many of the problems that were right there from the start with the PSP1000 and had been solved in the meanwhile.
Driving the size all the way up to a 7" tablet size is quite a turn-off, IMHO. I love my PSP Go because it easily fits my pocket and the games are way more interesting than anything I've seen in a smartphone (save for emulated stuff from pre-128bit era).
The huge size may be a factor that will further drive people into buying more powerfull smartphones rather than buying the console.
The NGP having "All the bells and whistles" is.. subjective to say the least. Touch contols for consumer devices are hardly what you can call state-of-the-art (PDAs from the 90's, say hello), and it's neither the "next big thing".
Stereoscopic 3D is, IMO. I can bet with you that 1H2011 will be flooded with announcements of stereoscopic 3D-capable high-end smartphones that are well capable of launching before the NGP.
Well, as Shifty Geezer said, one cannot please everybody. Just take into account that in consumer electronics, many of most criticized and controversial devices were also the ones with the most success (Gamecube 1.5 says hello).
If they go multi-platform, it will be hard to enforce consistent security. Sony has basically virtualized their gaming business and platform. Qriocity, PSN, PS Suite are leading the way in this direction.
PS3 and NGP will help to anchor the user base with game franchises. But I think services like Qriocity and even Steam, XBL and OnLive type of community features (e.g., spectating, communications, location based community, except the game streaming part) may help to differentiate the larger Playstation experience.
The hardware is only part of the solution. It depends on how deep their software and services go.
EDIT: In short, we are staring at (part of) the PS4 software stack now. It will launch with PS Suite services. They want everyone to chip in early this time.
According to who? I don't think there's any chance at all of $249 for a Christmas 2011 release by the way.
I suppose you also have a source for how much a 3DS costs to manufacture?
R&D spending is less but there will now be a royalty paid on every chip manufactured, which they obviously didn't need to pay when using their own parts.
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on one side people are saying NGP wont do well because it's over kill & will cost too much, & because of the power it's going to end up with too many console ports,
now we have you saying it can't use it's power as a selling point for long if MS jumps in & has a even more powerful handheld that plays Halo & Gears of War
in other words it's whatever Sony does downplay it until someone else does it better
this handheld hasn't even come out yet & already there is a imaginary handheld that's going to be better than it that's going to give people a reason not to buy it.
OK so take away NPG's "graphics stick" now tell me what this imaginary handheld is going to bring to the table that make it so much different from NPG ,ipods\iphones , 3DS , android & windows7 phones that will make it a must buy when NPG isn't because you took away it's "graphics stick"?
what I'm saying is simple. Imagine that the xbox 360 launched on 90nm and then not even a full year from when the xbox 360 was avalible world wide the ps3 launched on 65nm with spec increases due to drop in micron process.
The ps3 would have been able to cost the same or lress while offering improved performance at every point.
Now imagine the NGP launches this december its on 45/40nm and then MS or apple or whoever launches a dedicated gaming device in 2012 that is on 28nm . Obviously they will be able to offer better performance and battery life in some mixture that will very quickly take away sony's main selling point.
if you pair it with MS they already have the services end and have a large community used to playing on live. Many people would be excited about continuing gaming with their live friends
Why win 7 phone is done and they are just adding features to it. Win 7 phone can easily fit into an xbox handheld esp since live support is already there.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Because they'll try to go the iPhone/Android route where apps make the phone more desireable, thus allowing more licensing/sales revenue of WP7.
Selling WP7 OS and services is far less risky than having to manufacture your own hardware and then convince people to buy your software AND your hardware. With WP7 costs are shared for the device with the various hardware manufacturers. They bear the cost of producing the hardware and you sell them licensing for your OS.
With WP7 I imagine that advertising costs are shared with the respective phone companies. With a theoretical handheld console, they are left to advertise it on their own.
License fees for games sold through the WP7 marketplace will probably be similar to license fees for games to be sold through a handheld console. Each individual game will probably command a lower fee due to the lower price of the game, however, there's a potential to sell a LOT more games if WP7 can get numbers similar to Android or iPhone even if it remains in 3rd place.
Now, games will obviously be less robust on a smartphone than a dedicated handheld with discrete controls, but the risk vs reward in this case for MS favors developement of Xbox Live Games on WP7 rather than launching a risky handheld console venture.
If WP7 ends up a total and utter failure, it's possible MS might then look at the handheld console market, but even then I'm rather doubtful they want to get into that arena.
Regards,
SB
this is kinda what I'm talking about the DS had a touch screen that you used with a stylus & it was a big selling point over the PSP because it was the only handheld gaming console with that even though it was in PDAs from the 90's
fast forward
NGP has a 5 inch OLED Multi-touch capacitive touchscreen
5 inch Multi-touch capacitive touchpad in the rear
Six-axis motion sensing system (three-axis gyroscope, three-axis accelerometer); three-axis electronic compass
Built-in GPS , 3G , 2 analog sticks & so on stuff that's not standard in any handheld gaming console but in your honest opinion it's not bells and whistles because it was in PDAs from the 90's
& people say they don't want console ports on a handheld but Super Mario is going to sell rain sleet hail snow,
I think it's mostly about Perception & what people think of the company , even though Sony showed that they will have touch controlled games & use the motion sensing in games & they showed PlayStation Suite which will bring plenty of games made for handhelds but people are still saying that "it's going to fail just like PSP failed because Sony didn't learn anything & is trying to make a handheld that will only play console ports"
I know it's not everyone that's saying that but the media & fanboys are known to take a angle & stick with it ,
PSP was bad because it had PS2 ports & 1 controller nub but the 3DS is getting a lot of the ports from the GameCube / PS2 era & it's not becoming known for only having ports , I guess it's ok to have console ports as long as it's not from the same Gen.
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