Sony Halo, KILLzone hype thread!
- Thread starter chaphack
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Evil_Cloud
Veteran
Furry bears unleached? 
Well, when a game uses NURBS compared to a game that uses polygons, then i would say that the game that uses NURBS blows any game out of the water that uses polygons. Keep in mind, when a game uses polygons, the more polygons there are, the more memory is needed to store the polygons. Hence, why developers now are trying to use what i like to call "fake polygon" techniques like bump mapping, environment mapping, normal maps, and etc... to make a game look better without taking a direct hit on the game and memory, therefore when techniques like these are used, then you will see usually lower or the same polygon numbers on character, building, cars, and etc... in repeating game franchises like GT4 only uses 4000 polygons per car while GT3 uses 5000 polygons per car, but the difference here is that GT4 has more graphically enhanced techniques like displacement mapping, environment mapping, and etc... On the other hand, when a character in a game, and etc... is made out of NURBS, there is no need to have large memory space, but there is a need to have an enormous parallel processing power that's complex and computationally extensive and expensive in math numbers like the floating power of the processor, and etc... With that in mind, this is where the PS2 Vector units VU1 and VU2 come into play, and there is a reason why the PS2 was designed this way. To leave you thinking I have two pictures that are the same, but with one that is made out of NURBS and one that is made out polygons, and i would like for you to guess which one is made out of NURBS, and which one is made out of polygons, and to tell me if you can the polygon count of the one that is made out of polygons, and how much memory it requires (just give me an estimate if you can). Lastly, you can classify the picture on your left as picture 1 and the picture on you right as picture 2. In a short while, I while I will tell you which one is which, and more info on the pictures. Hey, if you want more info on this I would go to www.gamasutra.com <img src=http://www.rhino3d.com/images/front34i.jpg height=120 width=150> <img src=http://www.rhino3d.com/images/front34i.jpg height=120 width=150>
Good post Nirey, but both pictures have the exact same file URL
http://www.rhino3d.com/images/front34i.jpg
Bet you didn't think we'd catch that one, EH?
http://www.rhino3d.com/images/front34i.jpg
Bet you didn't think we'd catch that one, EH?
I meant to have the pictures the same, and yes i know that the url are the same, but one is made out of nurbs and the other is made out polygons, but if i put two different urls, the pictures would still be the same down to every detail. You see there is no difference between the two pictures no matter how hard you look for it because i have the model saved to my rhino 3d program, but i have two different versions of the model saved. One version is the polygon one, and the other is the nurb one. You see, i just took the nurb model and converted it to polygons using my Rhino 3d. Furthermore, the only difference is the memory space that is required for the two versions. One version, the nurb one, requires very little memory space, and the other version, the polygon one, requires an enormous memory space. In fact, when programming a game using NURB models, it is extremely difficult to program for due to the need for a complex and extensive parallel processing power without scaling back and etc.., when compared to programming a game using polygon models. Hence, that is why john carmack was quoated saying something along the lines of "progamming for curved surfaces is extremely difficult to program for, and is like going to hell and coming backing 10 times when compared to programming for polygons because of all the scaling that is needed in the PC environment, and there is not just processor power or even parallel processing power to do it because pc's are not designed in a micro-environment manner, and programming for curved surfaces is very time consuming because it is designed to be programmed in a micro-managable environment." Therefore, there is a reason why the PS2 is so hard to program for because one reason is that the PS2 is designed in a different manner to serve a specific desinged purpose when compared to other processors.
I know what you're saying.. open up Maya, make a NURBS sphere primitive with say, 2-3 sections/span. It'll be about 19k, convert it to polygons and you're looking atleast 10x the filesize for the same level of detail.
However, in a console, I would think it would be much cheaper and easier to just add more RAM to accomodate the polys, rather than design a high perf processor to do NURBS calculations.
Oh, and artists are generally NURBS people or Polygon people, just like Mac and PC users
<- somewhat beginner/intermediate Maya user, but I MUCH prefer to work with polys than NURBS.
However, in a console, I would think it would be much cheaper and easier to just add more RAM to accomodate the polys, rather than design a high perf processor to do NURBS calculations.
Oh, and artists are generally NURBS people or Polygon people, just like Mac and PC users
<- somewhat beginner/intermediate Maya user, but I MUCH prefer to work with polys than NURBS.
actrually ,the choice of the modeling technics is more about what is to be modeled Nurbs is good for design stuff (from car to perfume bottle) ,whereras fro organic (characters ,plants or such) polygons are more appropriate.
Also ,polygon iterative technics ,such proportional smoothing ,or subdivision surfaces can get the benefits of both (nurbs and polygon)
Marco, the "Find my own way" demo is a realtime demo in which u can rotate, freeze and zoom the camera.... i'm not sure u can catch it from those tiny pictures, but there are what looks like hundred of thousands of particles (they look very matrix-like symbols to me, if i remember correctly) floating over the water. Also, from the pictures u cant really see how good it moves... it really is an amazing piece of work...
it came in the Demo CD included in the PS2 box at launch, i'm not sure it's in the new demo disc that come with ps2 now. the disc had demos of launch games (LAME), some videos (LLLLAME) and the "Find my own way" tech demo. pretty much the only interesting bit really...
it came in the Demo CD included in the PS2 box at launch, i'm not sure it's in the new demo disc that come with ps2 now. the disc had demos of launch games (LAME), some videos (LLLLAME) and the "Find my own way" tech demo. pretty much the only interesting bit really...
chaphack said:Must have been rendered with those rumored PS2 workstations!
why is it that i just KNEW what u were gonna say?
(i was thinking that same thing by the way heheheh)
j/kA NURBS car moedl wouldn't be lighter in memory usage compared to a poly car, and especially not a subdiv car...
Keep in mind that to create complex shapes of today's cars, the artist would have to use dozens of little NURBS surfaces, especially for creating smooth transitions between the different parts. Blends, fillets, trims and so on - all separate pieces, with UV mapping problems and a BIG computational overhead. NURBS may sound like the end of all modeling methods, but once you test it in practice, the grass is suddenly not that green.
Keep in mind that to create complex shapes of today's cars, the artist would have to use dozens of little NURBS surfaces, especially for creating smooth transitions between the different parts. Blends, fillets, trims and so on - all separate pieces, with UV mapping problems and a BIG computational overhead. NURBS may sound like the end of all modeling methods, but once you test it in practice, the grass is suddenly not that green.
marconelly!
Veteran
You don't say!?
And to think ILM worked on those...
What's it like besides rendering errors? I had a feeling the movie is a dud.
pretty much every movie based on marvel characters that came out lately is crap. except for Xmen.
i mean, even Spiderman was just lame.... it was a compilation of chewing gum special effects all stuck together.... and that's the best one of all of them... Daredevil was lame (apart from Ben Affleck ), Hulk is gonna be lame...
here's hoping the the next Superman will turn out to be something special. i know in my heart ti's gonna be tough but hey.... still hopeful
i mean, even Spiderman was just lame.... it was a compilation of chewing gum special effects all stuck together.... and that's the best one of all of them... Daredevil was lame (apart from Ben Affleck
), Hulk is gonna be lame...here's hoping the the next Superman will turn out to be something special. i know in my heart ti's gonna be tough but hey.... still hopeful
