Some PS3 developers still unaware of removal of rumble feature.
- Thread starter NANOTEC
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onanie said:A simple way to think about it is that the BD drive is not solely for movie playback, but is simply a requirement for PS3 games, even if a proportion of games use it. You're buying the ability to play all PS3 games. And this seems to be for the good of all - developers that need the capacity, go wild on it.
You don't need to think very much about the BD drive as a choice
I'm paying $200 extra for a small proportion of the devs whose games I may or may not even play? no thanks. If I saw majority of the games needing the space, then I'd say "ok, DVD isn't gonna work for them, sounds good" but why can't they just give me 2 DVD at this point? I doubt I'll be playing a game long enough to be needing a swap in one sitting. Even the extra bandwidth, do all these games really need that especially when majority are renedered at 720p anyhow? I think other factors of the consoles will be a bigger bottleneck than the *need* for BD or even HD DVD player in this gen of consoles. By next gen, most definitely and that's when it's worth it to me.
The questions I'm asking the same that a lot of consumers will be pondering before deciding this holiday season. Not all of the 140million people who bought PS2's and Xbox's were die hard enthusiasts who'll disregard the price.
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Firstly, it is $100 extra (I don't believe you bought the core 360 pack). Secondly, you don't know if the proportion of games utilising BD will be "small". If given a choice to not swap DVDs (and it probably won't be just between two discs), would you refuse? Quite simple, I'm sure you'd agree. Next gen is here now, if you're willing to explore. Certainly for just $100 more, I'm all for it.RobertR1 said:
Except it was a choice, by Sony, to make it required. There is nothing inherent in PS3 games that require a Blu-ray drive, other than some check-list in a PS3 tech spec.onanie said:A simple way to think about it is that the BD drive is not solely for movie playback, but is simply a requirement for PS3 games, even if a proportion of games use it. You're buying the ability to play all PS3 games. And this seems to be for the good of all - developers that need the capacity, go wild on it.
You don't need to think very much about the BD drive as a choice
It is probably not possible.Sis said:
To illustrate (if Deano doesn't mind me quoting, let me know otherwise):
"Then we have textures and geometry and least we forget animation data and sound. These content items consume the vast majority of the RAM. Off the top of my head its in the region of about 300Mb in total! This is all streamed as well, so be glad you have a nice big disk (Edit: talking about optical disks i.e. Blu-ray) to put things on…"
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Powderkeg said:
In that case, ignore everything after 'if not'
Does it cost them money to support it in the hardware, or is it just for the actual peripherals sold?
scooby_dooby said:In that case, ignore everything after 'if not'
Does it cost them money to support it in the hardware, or is it just for the actual peripherals sold?
If my understanding is correct Sony would have to license the software libraries to make it work. MS didn't want to pay for that last-gen, which is why a Force Feedback wheel was never made for the Xbox. MS didn't want to pay for the software to make it all work.
mckmas8808
Legend
onanie said:
Just wanted to quote, bold, and underline this because thousands of people on the internet think that Blu-ray disc aren't needed and not being used. Guys BD in the PS3 isn't just needed for movies.
Could HS be made on DVD? Probably but with how much sacafices?
Okay, first up I never claimed you said it would mean no FF. I was well aware you were talking possibilities and so was I. The phrase I used referenced a generic 'you' and is a common form of addressing hypothetical discussion, but maybe not where you come from. An alternative to...Powderkeg said:
I don't think you can say absence of the rumble hard equates to absence of feedback signal support
(what the hell does Rumble Hard mean? I don't half type some nonsense at times!)
would be...
I don't think anyone can say absence of the rumble hard equates to absence of feedback signal support
Or...
I don't think it valid to say absence of the rumble hard equates to absence of feedback signal support
So ignoring that miscommunication, which you didn't question politely but got all ratty about, there's the idea you raised that 'could FF not appear on PS3' seemingly derived from the idea that no rumble in the controllers is indicative of that. I have suggested reason why that might not be the case, that the technology to drive rumble is different to the tech to drive FF, and that FF is still something devs can use through USB peripherals whether PS3 supports it officially or not. Both these arguments are hypothetical. You suggest one thing, I consider it and think another. Neither of us knows for sure nor was claiming to know for sure. But we should be able to discuss the relative merits of each other POV to see which is more likely, no? Otherwise it's not a discussion forum but an opinion board, where people post what they think is going to happen and then won't dicuss the strengths and weaknesses of their reasoning.
uh, how can the developers not have known of the removal of the rumble feature, if even the libraries have not included them??
I mean, were the rumble libraries taken away from them in the middle of development, or had they not received them at all and were just waiting for it to be implemented in future dev library update?
I mean, were the rumble libraries taken away from them in the middle of development, or had they not received them at all and were just waiting for it to be implemented in future dev library update?
Sis said:
you could reduce this to CD and DVD also you know
what if ps2 launched with only CD playback?
lot of devs would want their game to fit on a cd when it takes more then 700mb. by more compression or leaving out some textures or artwork or simplefying FMV's
OR they could spit it out on 2 CD's or even 3 or 5 ..
(Final fantasy 7 anyone?
) you could say Sony forced you in DVD
Shifty Geezer said:
See that bolded part. You are wrong about that. The PS3 would have to support Force Feedback through licensed software libraries, licensed from immersion, just like the rumble.
Rumble would have been used by 100% of PS3's, and Sony wouldn't pay for it, and I absolutely believe that suggests that Sony would be highly unlikely to pay to Force Feedback from the exact same company when fewer than 1% of PS3 users would make use of the feature.
Oh, I totally agree.
Now, as I said, Sony would have to license the tech from Immersion, something which they are unwilling to do for Rumble. Rumble would have worked on 100% of PS3's and in 100% of PS3 games, Force Feedback would have only worked in a handful of games, and only for people who bought the wheel which would be less than 1% of PS3 users based on the PS2.
Based on that, I believe it is very unlikely for the PS3 to support Force Feedback.
If you have a dissenting opinion then fine, but in order for us to reasonably discuss the merits of each point of view you would first need to post some logical reason or evidence to support your position that they would pay for the Force Feedback support when they won't pay for Rumble.
I will patiently wait for you to respond with that logic and reasoning, and any evidence you might have to support that position. After all, you wouldn't just be posting opinion without any reasoning to support it, would you?
What if... just what if the rumble was indeed removed because of the gyro functionality?
People assume it was because Sony got pissed, refused to pay Immersion for rumble and just had to come up with something to replace it in the PS3 controller, thus the gyro.
But that actually makes less sense than the "official explanation" of rumble interfering with the gyro (which it's easy to see it would unless you're in constant denial on everything Sony)
Then, even if force feedback that would be used in steering wheels was owned by Immersion, Sony might still be licensing the ff tech for (thirdparty) steering wheels and games like GT5.
People assume it was because Sony got pissed, refused to pay Immersion for rumble and just had to come up with something to replace it in the PS3 controller, thus the gyro.
But that actually makes less sense than the "official explanation" of rumble interfering with the gyro (which it's easy to see it would unless you're in constant denial on everything Sony)
Then, even if force feedback that would be used in steering wheels was owned by Immersion, Sony might still be licensing the ff tech for (thirdparty) steering wheels and games like GT5.
This must be the first time that I've heard rumble and force feedback must be licensed from Immersion. As far as I know, as long as you find a way to implement it in a different way, you won't be in trouble.
EDIT: I've not seen this reason proposed for lack of rumble in the PS3 controller yet : apparently due to Bluetooth 2.0 EDR being used, the controller only has 24 hours of battery life anyway, which is much shorter than other wireless controllers. Add in rumble and you're probably lucky if you get half.
EDIT: I've not seen this reason proposed for lack of rumble in the PS3 controller yet : apparently due to Bluetooth 2.0 EDR being used, the controller only has 24 hours of battery life anyway, which is much shorter than other wireless controllers. Add in rumble and you're probably lucky if you get half.
Do we know for sure that Immersion have the monopoly on Force Feedback and no company can use Force Feedback without licensing from Immersion? I dunno. If that's true your case is sound. AFAIK FF has been on PCs for years without needing Immersion's permission, and a wheel peripheral for PS3 would be more like that than a rumble controller. Also it could be a matter for the individual software devs or 3rd party peripheral manfacturer's to license - I'm not sure. So if GT5 is to support FF wheels, it might not be necessary for Sony to pay Immersion the license fees, in any has to, which as I say I'm not sure of. Obviously you're seeing a link between rumble tech and more advanced FF that I'm not.Powderkeg said:
