Interesing, never went to the Immersion site before. It seems everyone who is anyone in the controller market licenses their stuff. They also appear to do a lot of various technologies dealing with force feedback, so this seems to be their area of "expertise". On the cost side, it is looking like it costs < $0.50 per controller for this to impliment the IP (based on what MS and Sony paid), probably less if licensed (i.e. no damages).
Some PS3 developers still unaware of removal of rumble feature.
- Thread starter NANOTEC
- Start date
Why would Sony pay Immersion for Logitech's wheel?
Logitech would pay Immersion right?
Or does Immersion charge for whatever library support would be needed?
Seems like Immersion could charge individual software developers for the SDK or the runtime libs rather than a console vendor like Sony.
Logitech would pay Immersion right?
Or does Immersion charge for whatever library support would be needed?
Seems like Immersion could charge individual software developers for the SDK or the runtime libs rather than a console vendor like Sony.
a688 said:
See, this mentality of yours is exactly what makes much of the business world cutthroat and unethical. If you can patent any old vague idea (like this), what stops these IP companies from getting away with monopolistic practices like Immersion obviously are getting away with? Are there any other viable vibration techniques that are cost effective alternatives? No. This is the same f'ing bs that happens in the US pharmaceutical industry, an industry I have worked in for the past few years. I won't mention the companies I've worked for, but they brandish some of the most corrupt, disgusting uses of IP squatting I know of. They are relentless in their price gauging and claim it is necessary to subsidize and protect their R&D investment. All the while they are rolling around in cash (wiping their ass with 100 dollar bills) and people are dying because they can't even afford the drugs they need to help them live.
This is the BS these IP companies breed. Patents should not be granted to those who have no plan to implement. Just because it's a law doesn't mean it's right.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Acert93 said:
Again, this is really rather simple.
Immersion didn't start out to be a Patent Whore, or having anything at all to do with gaming. IF you had read their business plan prior to the Dualshock controller or the Xbox, you'd see that their primary focus was on bringing the internet experience to those people who can't view or hear the websites that they came into contact with.
It just so happens, that the handicapped market isn't nearly as profitable as the gaming market, and it also just so happens that the gaming market used the tech that they had developed in order to bring the internet to the handicapped in order to make games more immersive.
So guess what? A company that started out with great tech ideas with great intentions didn't make any money and realized that gaming companies (which are actually profitable) were using their patented tech in order to make games more fun.
So they sued. OR threatened to sue. As Acert pointed out, EVERY SINGLE other gaming company came to an agreement with them and licensed the tech... except for Sony. Who decided to FIGHT, and has lost TWICE.
Do you people really believe that MS would have just laid down and come to an agreement with them if they thought they could fight it and win? MS, the same company that lost how many BILLIONS of dollars on the Xbox? How much would it have cost them to fight this patent infringment lawsuit? What would have happened? At worst they would have lost another billion? But no.. they settled, paid off Immersion and paid extra to get a great deal for future licensing (which is why they don't have to pay anything to have FF or Rumble on the 360).
But as Acert said.. look at the LIST of companies that are paying Immersion to license the tech. It's EVERYBODY who is ANYBODY. Nintendo didn't have to pay because their "rumble pak" actually functions differently. But Logitech, Microsoft, Madcatz, EVERYBODY who makes a FF controller or a Rumble controller has paid licensing fees to Immersion.
Sony is the ONLY ONE that decided to actually go to court over the issue, and they've lost in court, TWICE.
Again, I bought one of the first Immersion products ever.. their first Ifeel mouse. It actually was revolutionary. When you moved the mouse pointer over the desktop it vibrated every time you hit an icon that you could click on. They aren't some "fly by night" company that decided to try to patent a vague idea that they could then sit on in order to get royalties from because it would be needed in video gaming. They developed and patented their tech because they actually had a business plan that went far beyond "patenting stupid things and trying to win lawsuits".
The fact that huge companies like Microsoft and Logitech settled and licensed the tech from them, and the fact that Sony has lost not only their original case but also their appeal, should demonstrate to any cognitive being that this certainly isn't frivolous.
RancidLunchmeat said:
This is a point for debate. Just because entities concede to a law/precedent does not make the law ethically correct. The companies hold over 600 patents that cover just about everything in haptic feedback...thus, crowding out any would be competitors. That is a bunch of creativity stifling BS. Don't use capitalist nonsense to justify this. Not everyone agrees with those ideologies and that includes those who live in said country. Just because manipulative corporate lawyers devise and lobby for laws laymen can't understand, and therefore, don't even care to read into, doesn't mean it's right. Anyway, this is a debateable argument that can never be resolved from that standpoint.
This would seem to be slanted towards corporations that can afford product roll-outs. True inventors would never be able to patent anything?ROG27 said:
I think the real issue is the patent granting mechanism. You say the Immersion patents are vague, but if they are vague, they shouldn't have been granted. The assumption is that since the patents were granted, the patents are not vague. If the truth is that Immersion has a handful of obvious and vague patents, then the root problem stems from the granting of those patents, not in a company trying to excercise their rights.
But without rumble feature there is no 100% backward compatibility for PSone and PStwo games. (Or we will see a "redesigned" DS2 with USB port?)
To have full experience from older games than is far better to play those games on PStwo. Especially if rumble is that important to you. Only for a few games where gameplay is a bit choppy will be good candidates to play them on PS3 (Shadow of the Colossus as an example).
Well, in that respect I don't mind as I won't ditch my PS2. Actually I will probably buy another one.
To have full experience from older games than is far better to play those games on PStwo. Especially if rumble is that important to you. Only for a few games where gameplay is a bit choppy will be good candidates to play them on PS3 (Shadow of the Colossus as an example).
Well, in that respect I don't mind as I won't ditch my PS2. Actually I will probably buy another one.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I can't believe Kojima didn't know about the tilt sensor until E3. Unbelievable.
mckmas8808
Legend
scooby_dooby said:
Actually he heard about it a little before E3.
I'd see the light weight as an advantage in a controller that is held in your hands, and especially in a gyro motion sensing controller.
The fact the controllers were wired and lacking the battery makes them lighter than DS2, but I think when you insert the battery the weight would be about the same.
Don't know what they mean with "cheap" and "flimsy"... I understand it would mean the build quality was poor, the shell creaky and the buttons unresponsive, but as there has been no other reports to the same effect, I think it's just bitterness on Viegas' part.
The fact the controllers were wired and lacking the battery makes them lighter than DS2, but I think when you insert the battery the weight would be about the same.
Don't know what they mean with "cheap" and "flimsy"... I understand it would mean the build quality was poor, the shell creaky and the buttons unresponsive, but as there has been no other reports to the same effect, I think it's just bitterness on Viegas' part.
Iron Tiger
Regular
I had the same impressions upon picking up the PS3 controller and expressed them earlier in this thread.rabidrabbit said:
What I mean by flimsy is that they lack the tangible solidness and heft of say the Xbox Controller S. Even the new Xbox 360 controllers don't feel as solid as the Controller S, but are still a giant step up from the PS3's controller. And yes, the controller was wired, but I didn't see any compartment for batteries, so I assumed they would all incorporate rechargeable ones (and make you buy a whole new controller when it wears out).
I should note that I'm not a fan of the layout of the X360's controller, and even though I have always hated the Dual Shock shape and layout, I prefer the layout (especially the shoulder buttons/triggers) of the PS3 controller to the X360 controller.
