Some PS3 developers still unaware of removal of rumble feature.
- Thread starter NANOTEC
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a688 said:But you can turn the controller to help you turn faster. You wouldn't even need a gas or a brake pedel either. Just lean forward to go and lean back to stop. What more could you want?
I've tried that and it doesn't work very well. You'll be in last place in every race.
I don't think there's any statistical value to those remarks, unless you have a valid poll that shows the majority of consumers value rumble and lament it's loss.Powderkeg said:
But force feedback signal in a wheel is different to rumble signals. Adding rumble does not equate to enabling force feedback, and yet Sony supported FF on wheels even though they don't make a dime from it. Only they do, because GT4 sells along with specific hardware that makes use of FF. Likewise if GT5 doesn't support FF those wanting a realistic FF wheel driving simulation will go elsewhere, so not providing those signals will mean cutting off support for hardware that utilises it.
I don't think you can say absence of the rumble hard equates to absence of feedback signal support. Heck, FF wheels will either be USB or BlueTooth and the devs can program their own signals. If Sony had a library for FF coms to devices, it'll be a tiddly little bit of effort to port it. If not, game devs will need drivers for supporting different FF devices, which again shouldn't be anything too complicated. PS2 supported USB FF wheels and I certainly expect GT5 to have full support for the likes of Logitech's Driving Force Pro USB wheel that was so widely acclaimed for GT4.
ihamoitc2005
Veteran
Maybe I buy ebay stock soon.
I am sorry my friend, I did not make clear my statement. What is not proven and is new technology is Immersion says they can make rumble work with new PS3 motion sense controller. I do not know if even they have made lab model (even many developers did not know of new controller type) and then in < six months they must make mass production model.
What is arrogance about this statements? First statement by Kutaragi is maybe true or maybe not true (who can be sure what date RSX is taped out) but many times companies say things like this for investors to have confidence during restructuring and even on normal days. It is very normal in business world.
Second statement is true. PS3 price is too cheap like Xbox360 price. Market price for small quantity (only 2 Million international available christmas season units) new release console is closer to $1000 than $300. Also, because of Blu-ray and "heavy" prerelease advertising of this feature, who can know what is the extra price people will be happy to pay? HDTV customers will be happy to pay too much for anything HD, especially in Christmas season, and even have very large debt to buy such toys to show off to neighbors, friends and office people, and sometimes maybe even for competition with other sibling.
RobertR1 said:
I am sorry my friend, I did not make clear my statement. What is not proven and is new technology is Immersion says they can make rumble work with new PS3 motion sense controller. I do not know if even they have made lab model (even many developers did not know of new controller type) and then in < six months they must make mass production model.
What is arrogance about this statements? First statement by Kutaragi is maybe true or maybe not true (who can be sure what date RSX is taped out) but many times companies say things like this for investors to have confidence during restructuring and even on normal days. It is very normal in business world.
Second statement is true. PS3 price is too cheap like Xbox360 price. Market price for small quantity (only 2 Million international available christmas season units) new release console is closer to $1000 than $300. Also, because of Blu-ray and "heavy" prerelease advertising of this feature, who can know what is the extra price people will be happy to pay? HDTV customers will be happy to pay too much for anything HD, especially in Christmas season, and even have very large debt to buy such toys to show off to neighbors, friends and office people, and sometimes maybe even for competition with other sibling.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Shifty Geezer said:
Now we're bordering on ridiculous. The the fact that almost every controller since N64 has implemented this feature (at the expense of the manufacturer) is proof enough that this is a feature people like to have. All these companies do market research before launching a console, and OBVIOUSLY that research has shown, time and again, that people want the rumble. Otherwise they wouldn't be wasting money implementing it.
thatdude90210
Regular
It'll be funny if Sony put the rumble back when the PS3 is released, then all this vigorous defense will be for nothing... just like the defense of the dual hdmi, 7 usb ports, etc.
Shifty Geezer said:
My remark was that it was a standard feature in game console controllers for 10 years.
If you dispute that statement, try naming the game console that was released within the past 10 years that didn't include rumble as a standard feature in it's controllers.
And when did I say anything at all about consumer value? How is that relevent to my comment? Care to explain?
They do so because they make money off opf it, plain and simple. As you say, GT4 sells along with specific hardware that makes use of it, and last time I looked, that Logitech wheel bears the GT logo and name, which I highly doubt they got to use for free.
I don't think I ever say it did.
I believe I said it would SUGGEST the lack of FF support, did I not? And a suggestion is not the same as being a definative no, is it?
Then WTF are you arguing about?
Hey, I've got a novel idea. How about commenting on the things that I've actually said, rather than trying to argue about things I didn't?
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ihamoitc2005 said:
Nintendo has tilt + rumble and they're using Immersion. I'm sure after so many years Immersion has an idea of how rumble works.
Nvidia made it public knowledge that the RSX had been just taped out in one of their investor conf calls earlier this year.
I could care less about what each component costs. Fact is, for a gaming console, which is what it is, it's not cheap. It's $200 more than the nearest competitor.
I started writing replies but suddenly realised I can't be bothered. Some people are too darned grumpy, and don't know how to read polite discussion. If someone wants to believe lack of rumble is suggestive that Force Feedback won't be supported, and don't care to discuss why that may or or may not be the case, c'est la vie.
scooby_dooby
Legend
What does the lack of rumble have to do with FF? Does FF use technology patented by immersion? If not, Powerkeg you're making little to no sense.
Lack of rumble suggest lack of rumble, nothing more. It's not like it's a mystery why Sony had to make this decision.
Lack of rumble suggest lack of rumble, nothing more. It's not like it's a mystery why Sony had to make this decision.
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Technically, $100. People MIGHT compare SKU-to-SKU, but they're just as likely to compare 20GB hard drive to 20GB hard drive.RobertR1 said:
But no, 'tain't cheap. I was predicting $399/$499 and expecting more of a blowout, so this will probably put more of a damper on things. But then it may also pick up a lot more from Blu-Ray adoption and/or the ability to use it for DVR purposes... Depends what software and capabilities they have out and easy to use at launch. Sony's had a bit too much practice in over-complicating things on the software side. They really need to copy Apple, too.
Damn straight. Darn you, Mummy's Curse!scooby_dooby said:
ihamoitc2005
Veteran
$100
Nintendo tilt technology is different from 6-axis motion sense technology of PS3 controller.
I do not understand what you are trying to say my friend. Companies say many things for investor confidence. Maybe even RSX is not taped out till yesteday after another revision to specs! No one can know these things. When technology is changing very fast sometimes target specs change also.
I think you mean $100 no? $299 Xbox Core cannot play games without extra purchase and does not have wireless controller.
XBox360 Premium is what is competitor for base PS3. For extra $100 you get Blu-ray which is much better than DVD because by next year DVD is obsolete. It is waste of money to buy seperate High Definition drive. But many have already bought Xbox360 with obsolete DVD drive and then paid $500-$1000 for next gen drive! It is amazing to me how much money people will waste (and get debt) to have HD!
RobertR1 said:
Nintendo tilt technology is different from 6-axis motion sense technology of PS3 controller.
I do not understand what you are trying to say my friend. Companies say many things for investor confidence. Maybe even RSX is not taped out till yesteday after another revision to specs! No one can know these things. When technology is changing very fast sometimes target specs change also.
I think you mean $100 no? $299 Xbox Core cannot play games without extra purchase and does not have wireless controller.
XBox360 Premium is what is competitor for base PS3. For extra $100 you get Blu-ray which is much better than DVD because by next year DVD is obsolete. It is waste of money to buy seperate High Definition drive. But many have already bought Xbox360 with obsolete DVD drive and then paid $500-$1000 for next gen drive! It is amazing to me how much money people will waste (and get debt) to have HD!
scooby_dooby
Legend
Bad_Boy said:
Woops
edited.
Shifty Geezer said:
The fact that it just suggests the possibility means that it's not a definative claim either way. There was no flat out claim that there wouldn't be Force Feedback, just the statement that such a result is a possibility.
Now, if you've got something that says that the PS3 will absolutely 100% guranteed support Force Feedback, I would love to see it.
But if you don't, accept the fact that the possibility exists that it won't, in which case my statement has been correct all along. You can debate the likelyhood all you want, but all I said was the possibility exists.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
ihamoitc2005 said:
HA! HA! HA! Oh my, Lord. Next year DVD is obsolete? I've got news for you. There's just as much chance of HD-DVD or BR being obsolete by the time people are ready to switch from DVDs. Even if you HAVE a PS3 with a Blu-Ray player, the percentage of people that 1) Own an HDTV and 2) Are willing to spend more money to purchase a Blu-Ray movie (that can only be viewed on their single TV that has the PS3 attached to it) as opposed to buying the cheaper DVD player is a very, very small one.
It's a questionable expenditure of money to buy ANY HD drive at this point, since we don't know 1) Which format will "win" and 2) If any other NEW format might offer benefits above and beyond the current two formats that makes its adoption more likely than either of the current two.
But the only real waste at this point is the PS3 which forces you to spend a $100 premium on a format that you may or may not use, that may or may not win the format battle, and that you may or may not even use if you have the capability because movies will cost more and will be only viewable on the single TV to which the PS3 is attached.
Edit: Whoops! Just to clarify, the $100 premium for the PS3 is clearly not a waste if you have a HDTV and if you plan to purchase BR movies. However, for everybody else who doesn't fit into that rather small minority of the console consumer market, it is a waste. Whereas the 360 has no such waste comparison, because anybody purchasing the HD-DVD drive already definitionally fits into that rather small minority of the market.
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RancidLunchmeat said:
I'd rather have a $399 PS3 with a DVD drive and then decide for myself which format I want. Offer me the Blu Ray drive as a $200 peripheral and let me decide. How do I know that the PS3's BD Drive will even be good enough for my movie watching experience? If it's not and blu ray wins then I still have to go get another Blu Ray player to enjoy the movies to my liking. Just like I have a seperate DVD player sitting next to my 360 currently, as do a LOT of people. I guess I just don't feel like paying an extra $200 to have a format forced on me.
With add on devices, I could either get a HD DVD or a Blu Ray player for $200 or get a standalone player for how much ever and when ever *I* wanted. If blu ray fails how expensive will PS3 games be that require BD media that has not dropped in price due to low volume production?
A simple way to think about it is that the BD drive is not solely for movie playback, but is simply a requirement for PS3 games, even if a proportion of games use it. You're buying the ability to play all PS3 games. And this seems to be for the good of all - developers that need the capacity, go wild on it.RobertR1 said:
You don't need to think very much about the BD drive as a choice
