Resistance 2

[Kittonwy]

See, this is also how I feel. Rather than just push the envelope with pretty visuals, they want to move in another direction and offer something no other developer is offering. Scope and scale are two things that have been sorely lacking this generation.

How many games have we played this generation with hacked in Co-op? Even RE5 looks like it's force feeding people some hack job co-op with a new character. Insomniac decided to do something entirely new and innovative for online co-operative multiplayer in a First Person Shooter. Instead of just offering campaign, they offered massive battles that have great replay value.

Sure, we've all played 16 player shooters with smaller maps and vehicles, but how many of us have played 60 player maps?

Even more importantly, why does the 16 player title only look marginally better than Resistance 2? Even the much smaller Gears of War doesn't look like it's a generation ahead of Resistance 2, with 1/6th of the player count (and smaller levels to boot).

These things are all infinitely more important to me than "that texture looks nice" or "that brick is casting a shadow on my characters foot!".

I don't mean to belittle anyone, however, you can easily see that the better looking titles are often the ones that have the least replay value.

Bioshock
Uncharted
Army of Two
Assassins Creed
GTA IV
Unreal Tourney 3

I'm sure there are plenty more to add, but Single Player or Multiplayer, these games all expired long before many thought they would. Who is still talking about Assassins Creed? Once you get over the visuals, the game itself was rather shallow and repetative, with a story that I personally thought was poor.

I would argue that Uncharted was great, but came no where near the scope or scale of R2. Insomniac needed to use 1 engine to create 3 different components of the game, which all support massive amounts of polygons and particle effects. To knock them for not giving you a nice texture on some walls, or shadowing on crates...is just over the top, IMO.

They've certainly made their achievements, and worked hard to get where they are. To sell them short, or pretend that what they've done is some sort of betrayal to fans is ridiculous. They are a company, and they are certainly looking to the market to see where the money is. I don't hold that against them, it's what they do with that direction that counts. With Resistance 2, I think they've offered up a meaty shooter with plenty of depth to keep players coming back for more, while making it accessible enough for new players to get into it quickly and have fun.

You're listing a bunch of games, some of which didn't even have online MP to knock them for their lack of "replay value"? Obviously MP wasn't the developers' focus. Are you arguing that when people look at the R2 SP campaign, they're required to take into account that the game has MP so the SP campaign won't look as good?

Uncharted as a single player campaign had excellent AI and plenty of replay value, multiple difficulties, and enemies that at least give the appearance of behaving dynamically and intelligently, most of the levels allow for different approaches by both players and enemies, and players can employ different play styles, it's accessible to the point where it CAN be and often IS, replayed many times, Uncharted is by far much more replayable than the SP campaign in RFOM IMHO.

I doubt either of us have played through the single player campaign in R2 yet so I'm not sure if R2 SP is so much more replayable than Uncharted, obviously Uncharted doesn't have online MP but Naughty Dog wanted to focus on SP and it really shows because they did an amazing job in terms of gameplay, visuals AND audio. For a game that toutes its scope, from various footages the R2 SP campaign seems rather linear, for that kind of linearity I'm not sure why the game couldn't look better. If you can't have crates or sandbags that cast shadows, bake them, or light your levels in a way that they won't stick out as much.

In HALO3 the fights against scarabs was the definition of "scope" with multiple approaches to taking down the enemies whether you want to use a tank or fly around or even fight on the scarabs but what in the R2 SP campaign shown so far has indicated that R2 has THAT kind of scope? The goliath fight and the leviathan fight both are rather linear from what they've shown. Like I said, I'm all for the argument for "scope" but when we're talking about scope it shouldn't simply be what the player is seeing but never gets to interact with. Fighting one of the bosses in SOTC, THAT'S scope, having a bunch of scripted events and following a series of linear paths, is not really scope or at least what I prefer as "playable" scope.

R2 co-op resembles more an objective game against a bunch of bots, well, a TON of bots. Personally I prefer co-op over the MP competitive because the player is playing with friends, it also makes the relatively unsophisticated AI more palatable, a lot of times things are made more difficult because of enemie spawning right next to you rather than the enemies being really intelligent and aggressive, even with the enemies getting more aggressive as you level up I've still yet to see enemies that really try to outflank the players.

I do think R2 has turned out to be a good game, one that I look forward to picking up tomorrow, but it just seems to me that for each of the modes it offers, there are problems that could have been addressed, whether it's the aiming (ironsight not really being ironsight), MP competitive lacking in objective mode types, MP co-op not having exactly strong AI, SP campaign inconsistency in graphics, that the game could have spent another 6 months in the cooker.

 

[zawarudo]

One thing is for sure, this game hasn't taken off or moved the needle for the PS3 at all. I must say that the gameplay of R1 and R2 alike feels very generic even for a shooter. That's the main problem. It's boring to actually play.

 

[patsu]

Might want to wait for the game sales result before commenting on sales effect.

 

[Kittonwy]

Hmm... I believe it's also an issue of packaging. The amazing elements I experienced came much later. For someone who has not ventured far enough, they will not get to see those. In addition, these experiences only occurred at specific points in the game compared to basic visuals that are "everywhere".

I understand your concerns with visuals; but given the same amount of time, I'd rather they fix and enhance the gameplay first. We have given our feedback in the closed beta, but apparently there are enough opposite opinions. And so here we are.

It remains to be seen who's sticks around longer. Them or us (old timers with R1).

Hopefully the AI in SP is good.

I think even with the public beta there has been so much backlash that they would have noticed. I don't think those who are defending the MP right now saying how the people who complained on myres are supposedly a minority (even though that "minority" clearly outnumbers the people who called them a minority) will stick around, my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2, it's like RFOM right now it would be hard to get a decent objective game going, hopefully skirmish will be playable in a few months, I hope to stick around for awhile, we'll see what the rest of the clan plans to do, last week I've had a hell of a time trying to get ANYONE from the old clan to play R2, most wanted to play either LBP, or wipeout HD MP (which frankly I don't really care about), or GTAIV MP (which frankly I also don't really give a crap about) or Burnout Paradise (which I also don't give a crap about), we used to play RFOM every single night for like two whole years.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

One thing is for sure, this game hasn't taken off or moved the needle for the PS3 at all. I must say that the gameplay of R1 and R2 alike feels very generic even for a shooter. That's the main problem. It's boring to actually play.

Might want to wait for the game sales result before commenting on sales effect.

It does sound like zawarudo is trying to speak it into existence, doesn't it? :smile:

 

[patsu]

I think even with the public beta there has been so much backlash that they would have noticed. I don't think those who are defending the MP right now saying how the people who complained on myres are supposedly a minority (even though that "minority" clearly outnumbers the people who called them a minority) will stick around, my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2, it's like RFOM right now it would be hard to get a decent objective game going, hopefully skirmish will be playable in a few months, I hope to stick around for awhile, we'll see what the rest of the clan plans to do, last week I've had a hell of a time trying to get ANYONE from the old clan to play R2, most wanted to play either LBP, or wipeout HD MP (which frankly I don't really care about), or GTAIV MP (which frankly I also don't really give a crap about) or Burnout Paradise (which I also don't give a crap about), we used to play RFOM every single night for like two whole years.

I very much doubt that Insomniac will sit on its laurels. Something inside me says that they will likely respond after they get the R2 launch in order.

According to Reverend Harrison...
"I believe that a true 21st century business model is to do all of that [production] in the glare of the game-playing public, so you can expose that innovation to your consumers," he said. "You may not charge them for it at this point - but why not deliver your innovations and experimentations directly to your players, and let them be part of the process of deciding which games to make?"

R2 might be a good start. It has so many elements that it's like a FPS construction kit to me (or at least all the advanced building blocks are there).

 

[ultragpu]

personally im very happy with the direction insomniac has headed. it is perhaps the most epic war game out on the market with insane amount of actions, scale and more than good enough sfx. this is their focus, they're not trying to go the absolute CG-ish prestine look of KZ2 nor the eye bleeding sharpess of uncharted, they are simply offering their own unique approach to wow us. there's no reason to doubt insomniac's ability to programe HDR or better shadows, it's just their design choice to balance everything out and in which the result is indeed impressive. so i would be happy for wat the game is. my 2c on the graphics for the day.

 

[Cornsnake]

my fear is that in a few months when Killzone 2 comes out even the hardcore who kept fighting for them to tune the game to be better would just take off and go with Killzone 2

This is very true. I've seen it happen before, and it's happening right now with Battlefield Bad Company. If the game isn't to a players liking for what ever reason, if the problem isn't fixed within a few months, they'll move on to the next big game. And even if the problem is fixed after they move on, they won't be coming back. Killzone 2 seems like a good candidate for players to move to, but CoD5 could even be the game to do it. If the day 1 patch isn't what players want, then Insomniac has only a limited amount of time to respond to keep their fans. I would hate to see that happen.

 

[tha_con]

I think those worries are premature and over the top.

All games have "hardcore' people. I think folks even play Deadlocked, IIRC, on PS2.

That said, just got done with a quick play session during lunch, loved it. Looked great, controlled great, weapons felt great. A few unexpected deaths, but nothing frustrating.

The CE has tons of stuff, and the Chimeran Action Figure is extremely well packaged and put together, very very high quality stuff (much better than the Big Daddy, Assassins Creed, hell, I'd even say it rivals the Halo Action Figures for quality).

 

[GarretASUS]

You're listing a bunch of games, some of which didn't even have online MP to knock them for their lack of "replay value"? Obviously MP wasn't the developers' focus. Are you arguing that when people look at the R2 SP campaign, they're required to take into account that the game has MP so the SP campaign won't look as good?

Uncharted as a single player campaign had excellent AI and plenty of replay value, multiple difficulties, and enemies that at least give the appearance of behaving dynamically and intelligently, most of the levels allow for different approaches by both players and enemies, and players can employ different play styles, it's accessible to the point where it CAN be and often IS, replayed many times, Uncharted is by far much more replayable than the SP campaign in RFOM IMHO.

I doubt either of us have played through the single player campaign in R2 yet so I'm not sure if R2 SP is so much more replayable than Uncharted, obviously Uncharted doesn't have online MP but Naughty Dog wanted to focus on SP and it really shows because they did an amazing job in terms of gameplay, visuals AND audio. For a game that toutes its scope, from various footages the R2 SP campaign seems rather linear, for that kind of linearity I'm not sure why the game couldn't look better. If you can't have crates or sandbags that cast shadows, bake them, or light your levels in a way that they won't stick out as much.

In HALO3 the fights against scarabs was the definition of "scope" with multiple approaches to taking down the enemies whether you want to use a tank or fly around or even fight on the scarabs but what in the R2 SP campaign shown so far has indicated that R2 has THAT kind of scope? The goliath fight and the leviathan fight both are rather linear from what they've shown. Like I said, I'm all for the argument for "scope" but when we're talking about scope it shouldn't simply be what the player is seeing but never gets to interact with. Fighting one of the bosses in SOTC, THAT'S scope, having a bunch of scripted events and following a series of linear paths, is not really scope or at least what I prefer as "playable" scope.

R2 co-op resembles more an objective game against a bunch of bots, well, a TON of bots. Personally I prefer co-op over the MP competitive because the player is playing with friends, it also makes the relatively unsophisticated AI more palatable, a lot of times things are made more difficult because of enemie spawning right next to you rather than the enemies being really intelligent and aggressive, even with the enemies getting more aggressive as you level up I've still yet to see enemies that really try to outflank the players.

I do think R2 has turned out to be a good game, one that I look forward to picking up tomorrow, but it just seems to me that for each of the modes it offers, there are problems that could have been addressed, whether it's the aiming (ironsight not really being ironsight), MP competitive lacking in objective mode types, MP co-op not having exactly strong AI, SP campaign inconsistency in graphics, that the game could have spent another 6 months in the cooker.

I would agree that scope isn't merely what you see, but what you can interact with. The Halo games are great examples of this (more so Halo 3) and I would say Gears of War 2 looks to have that kind of "interactive" scope.

Although not a Halo killer, Resistance 1 was a good game (about a 7.5/10 game), but you could tell it was quickly done in a bunch of areas. Mostly static cinematics, harsh transitions between levels, boring lead character, and a story that took a backseat for the most part, even though it was interesting but wasn't the priority. Resistance 2 looks to improve on these things, but we'll see if really surpasses them.

 

[Cornsnake]

I think those worries are premature and over the top.

All games have "hardcore' people. I think folks even play Deadlocked, IIRC, on PS2.

That said, just got done with a quick play session during lunch, loved it. Looked great, controlled great, weapons felt great. A few unexpected deaths, but nothing frustrating.

The CE has tons of stuff, and the Chimeran Action Figure is extremely well packaged and put together, very very high quality stuff (much better than the Big Daddy, Assassins Creed, hell, I'd even say it rivals the Halo Action Figures for quality).

Well I'm not talking of all players of coarse, mostly the one's that have their doubts about competitive now. I play clanwars on www.consolegaming.eu, and if we can't play a decent clanwar soon after release, our clan and most other clans will move on, and the few that are left behind won't have enough clans to play against on the clanladder. And like I said before, R2 is missing a few gamemodes to keep clanwars interesting.

I wish they had that CE here in europe, its offering a lot for just a little extra. It's a shame SCEE can't be bothered to bring it over.

 

[tha_con]

I'm 100% positive that R2 will see at LEAST 3 more game modes that will be patched in within the next 6 months or so.

Hopefully I get some good time to talk to some folks and leak some ideas I've got to them.

 

[patsu]

Jstevenson hinted that more game modes are coming.

 

[woundingchaney]

Not a lot of time to post but been playing for a few hours and Im greatly enjoying both the sp and mp.

Hit me up with friend invites (WoundingCHANEY) if anyone would like to play co-op or competitive sometime.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Gamesradar Review Link

R2 isn’t the perfect game: the Campaign is too short, the story too confused and the action too derivative. Also, for such a polished game, the sight of fallen foes hovering in mid-air or getting caught on scenery and sent spinning really stands out. But there’s so much done right, so many ideas that have clarity and have been followed through, and so much to stand in awe of, that Resistance 2 is surely a must-buy for anyone with a PS3.

The most important aspect, and what lets all the individual elements shine, is the game’s pacing – it’s immaculate. It constantly mixes up boss battles, races against the clock, switch pulling, vent crawling, ambushes, sieges, corridor blasting and open battlefields in such a way that you never feel overwhelmed or idle.

My only worry, coz they don't have vehicle sections this time, seems to have vaporized !

While being a technical and innovative success, the way the online options cater to both the newbie and the hardcore in the same space is the real victory for Insomniac.

Something that has debated a lot here.

 

[patsu]

There are quite a few show-off moments in this game. Lot's of enemies in all shapes and sizes.

Don't know what to say about SP yet. I'm still playing and digesting. I think the game misses the R1 weapon wheel. Without the wheel, Insomniac has to drop weapons all over the place for us to pick up, which is rather weird.

Did I say the game has lot's of enemy types ? It's like a Zoo or something

[Cock shotgun and walk out]

See you later

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Why do I have to suffer the delay ! This time its a darn 24 days delay ! patsu, you will have finished the whole Sp and gone halfway thru co-op by the time I get the game !


BTW, without the weapo wheel, doesn't it become obvious as to what are you going to face next, coz you'll see a specific weapon lying there before that. I hate that, feels like spoonfeeding and takes away the surprise completely. Like if I see a LAARK lying in front I know, there will be a giant monster behind the door !
Does it bother you, patsu, while playing R2? or is it fine?

 

[djskribbles]

How long is the campaign?

 

[Phil]

Why do I have to suffer the delay ! This time its a darn 24 days delay ! patsu, you will have finished the whole Sp and gone halfway thru co-op by the time I get the game !

I find this to be the biggest flaw in the multiplayer part of the game... Sadly.

 

[patsu]

BTW, without the weapo wheel, doesn't it become obvious as to what are you going to face next, coz you'll see a specific weapon lying there before that. I hate that, feels like spoonfeeding and takes away the surprise completely. Like if I see a LAARK lying in front I know, there will be a giant monster behind the door !
Does it bother you, patsu, while playing R2? or is it fine?

In general, it does bother me a bit.

But even if they have the wheel, Insomniac will still drop the right ammo before the encounters like the first game.

Sometimes, the weapon is tucked away by the way side, so you'll have to hunt around while under attack. I prefer the wheel because if I don't use the ammo supplied by Insomniac, I can try something else.