Resistance 2

[patsu]

The thing is, it may never catch up as a result of gameplay first rule.
I suspect those levels will look similar in the end considering the amount of stuff and complexity of the city (and especially if those are mostly from coop campaign), but also there will be more than enough levels suitable for "best graphics" flame wars.

Yeah well, from my perspective, as long as they nail the gameplay... the rest will fall in place. People will always complain about graphics, one flaw or another. As long as some of the levels look top tier, I think most people should be happy. I won't expect Uncharted level of textures, KZ2 level of lighting, MGS4 level of craftmanship or GTA4 level of openness and scale. Resistance is gameplay and gameplay is Resistance. ;-)

The limited weapon shit is so not Resistance, it really made me angry seeing the "triangle for carbine" notice on screen. :/
A game famous for its weapons shouldn't bother. I hope it's for co-op only which would be understandable. At least give me the weapon circle for the second playthrough.

I need to play a few MP rounds to be convinced either way. But in SP, I am almost certain no weapon limit is the better way to go.

I will also get mad if new Bullseye bullets are significantly faster than the original. Same goes for Auger.

Yap. Chimera rage + Bullseye kill ridiculously quick. I love Auger. I am one of the few who has 1000+ Auger kills (Muahahaha). Did I say I love Auger ? [size=-2]I sucked at other weapons[/size]

Those said, the flood scene of the new Chimera does really show off one of the main reasons I like R1 single player. Awesome footage.

They say R2 has a new enemy race. Dunno whether it's true or not. The new Chimera (Ghoul ?) looks like a smaller version of Gray Jacks. I hate those things in a closed room. They are too fast (A little too hairy to handle with slow shotgun loading). Freaked me out the last time.

 

[Kittonwy]

Frankly I don't care about the gameplay changes because I don't think they're going to make a huge difference given most people probably use two weapons most of the time, and the health system should be familiar to anyone playing as human in MP. Yeah the grims, they rush you, I get it, not a huge deal.

The main problem right now is the graphics, it's not like the system can't do HDR, we've seen it done in many games (Uncharted, MGS4, GTAIV), it's not like the system can't do self-shadowing, anybody playing MGS4 or GTAIV or Uncharted can see it clearly implemented, so where are these two features in Resistance 2? High polygon count and huge draw distance aren't things that are a huge draw anymore, lighting and shadowing are needed to set the mood for the level and in the Gamestrailer videos, character self-shadowing is lacking, even things that should have at least baked shadows do not, and they still have that light bloom which doesn't really look all that great but HDR lighting is missing.

Resistance 1 didn't have a lot of deficiencies in terms of gameplay, the graphics was what they needed to work on, lighting and shadowing was the main issue. Ratchet was also missing HDR and self-shadowing and doesn't look as good as Uncharted which came out around the same time. I just wonder what the problem is, we're talking about a third-generation game, Insomniac should be familiar with the hardware, at least enough to implement graphical features missing from their first two games on the system. As a fan of the first game I'm not going to overlook graphical flaws just because the gameplay is great, it's a big franchise and it should be impressive both graphically and gameplay-wise, fans should want the game to be as great as possible in terms of both aspects.

 

[JPT]

Are you saying that you will not buy and play R2, even if its great fun to play, because of missing HDR and self shadowing?

I do not know much about graphics and the reason I am on this board is because its more civilized than other boards, or better policed But still for this place, your view seems a bit extreme, imho.

Personally I would have a new fun gameplay feature before anymore graphic fluff
Also in their podcasts they keep saying that it will be much better, this is a work in progress and should be considered as one.

As for the gameplay first then polish later, I totally agree, look at Assassins Creed, it looks nice, but to me its an uther bore to play, maybe it could have been more fun if they spent more time on the gameplay?

 

[Kittonwy]

In any case, RFOM was never about #1 in graphics. It has an addictive gameplay and a well put together, dedicated server gaming framework.

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system. Obviously the gameplay has taken a major step forward but it seems like the art side has simply dropped the ball. It makes me wonder what the heck is going on.

It's not like I don't care about the gameplay either because I just played R1 for an hour last night with the clan and I would choose to play it over GTAIV MP any night of the week.

 

[Kittonwy]

Are you saying that you will not buy and play R2, even if its great fun to play, because of missing HDR and self shadowing?

So just because I enjoyed the first game and supported it with my money, and would like nothing else but to buy the sequel to experience the gameplay enhancements, that I shouldn't expect a similar level of enhancement in graphics?

I do not know much about graphics and the reason I am on this board is because its more civilized than other boards, or better policed But still for this place, your view seems a bit extreme, imho.

There's nothing extreme about my view, I like the gameplay enhancements, I'm not complaining about the health system or the two weapons limit. I happen to think the franchise I like should be visually impressive both visually and in terms of gameplay.

Personally I would have a new fun gameplay feature before anymore graphic fluff
Also in their podcasts they keep saying that it will be much better, this is a work in progress and should be considered as one.

As for the gameplay first then polish later, I totally agree, look at Assassins Creed, it looks nice, but to me its an uther bore to play, maybe it could have been more fun if they spent more time on the gameplay?

Graphics and gameplay aren't mutually exclusive, and it isn't like their gameplay designers double as their graphics programmers so they have to give up one for the other.

The biggest problem with the first game was graphics, the first game was lacking HDR lighting and self-shadowing, if those things aren't important I wonder why all the big games have them, the first game was never really lacking in MP gameplay, the first thing they needed to address was to impress people visually or at least bring it to a level that is on par with the games already out there, the first screenshots they released in Game Informer were VERY nice, the media they released subsquently has been unimpressive. Why show the Chicago level if it isn't ready and isn't going to impress?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

The only issue I had with the RE2 vid I saw at GT was it's horrible tearing.

I know Insomniac's previous PS3 games had virtually zero tearings, so I expect RE2 be the same.

I'd personally take locked up V-Sync over any fancy lighting/shadowing.

What good of a pretty picture if it tears?

 

[patsu]

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system. Obviously the gameplay has taken a major step forward but it seems like the art side has simply dropped the ball. It makes me wonder what the heck is going on.

I think their main competitor will be CoD4. From that perspective, R2 will need to revv its graphics enough to comparable or exceeding standards. However, I just don't think they intend to beat Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, MGS4, KZ2 (demo) in the visual department. Some love highly detailed textures, others place more emphasis on art direction, many prefer dynamic lighting and "perfect" shadows, etc. It seems like a futile exercise since there is no universal standard.

If we limit ourselves to shooters only...
I'd expect Insomniac to put in a worthy effort, but only shine in areas that are important to FPSes: responsiveness, stable framerate, amount of enemy activities, draw distance, enemy IQ (intelligence quotient), weapon effects, etc.

Most importantly, *if* Insomniac is experimenting heavily in gameplay, they may not have enough time to optimize for graphics all the way (say... if they locked down the gameplay late).

It's not like I don't care about the gameplay either because I just played R1 for an hour last night with the clan and I would choose to play it over GTAIV MP any night of the week.

Yeah I know, Kittonwy. But besides richer gameplay, Insomniac is also trying to roll out a new social FPS framework. I think scope-wise, the team has already surpassed their last game by 2-3 times.

 

[nAo]

Insomniac always released games with amazing graphics and gameplay (since their PS1 days!). It shouldn't really come as a surprise if ppl expect from them outstanding graphics technology/art.

 

[DJ12]

Personally, I cannot believe "that is it" on the graphics front.

Ratchet was a huge leap graphically over R1 and running at twice the framerate, it doesn't really compute that R2 is barely going to look any better than R1 with Insomniac going back to 30fps.

I think the problem is they wanted to show something, but nothing that's going to kill the E3 buzz that they want. You don't show all your cards at once.

 

[patsu]

I am scared of Kittonwy's ambition and expectation. Is it good enough to have amazing graphics but without self shadowing and HDR in everything, or being #3 in graphics ?

 

[_phil_]

Ratchet was a huge leap graphically over R1 and running at twice the framerate.

I strongly disagree.Nothing in Ratchet touches the best levels of R1.The style of Ratchet might be cheating the perceptions.

R2 is barely going to look any better than R1 with Insomniac going back to 30fps.

If think on the coutrary that R2 is allready (as it's been shown in the last videos) more impressive than both the older games on every front ,(except some textures here and here).

R2 world seems like evereything is big and with a wide scope.Probably an unmatched scope for the genre.The game is pretty long and is 3 games in one.
They obviously won't put the same density of detail like in games like Uncharted or Geow.

 

[Cornsnake]

I don't expect Insomniac to run out of time to polish it. Their planning is very accurate.

You should use the Arc-charger on those grey jacks. It fires faster and wont run out of ammo on that first encounter.

The more I think about having only two weapons the less I like it. You always want something with good enough range and fire rate like the carabyne and bullseye. So you can only carry one extra and if you need another you have to go look for it. Nobody is going to look around for a gun when they are being shot at.

Insomniac is going to give some extra explanation on their next podcast and on the playstation blog. I'm starting to see a pattern here, everytime they release new info they have to explain them selfs afterwards. They should release things that are almost finished.

 

[Kittonwy]

I am scared of Kittonwy's ambition and expectation. Is it good enough to have amazing graphics but without self shadowing and HDR in everything, or being #3 in graphics ?

I would be kind of disappointed if they don't implement those two things, they seem like standard graphical features for any big budget current-gen game, I really don't get their aversion to self-shadowing.

Like I've said, I love the first game, got all the expansions, and still play it to this day, so I want the sequel to be the best it can be.

 

[nAo]

HDR is not something that you drop at the last minute. It can dramatically change your rendering time, your renderer architecture and the way the content is authored.

 

[_phil_]

GeOW didn't have hdr ,and concerning self shadowing ,i'd had prefered they unflag it...

 

[Kittonwy]

HDR is not something that you drop at the last minute. It can dramatically change your rendering time, your renderer architecture and the way the content is authored.

That's why I'm surprised that it's not included from the get-go. You guys had it from day-one in Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm had it from day one, Uncharted had it from day one, even SOCOM Confrontation, basically a second-tier franchise now, seems to have it. I just don't understand how they figure that their solution of LDR + bloom and no self-shadowing is somehow competitive graphically with what's out there, heck doesn't GTAIV use logluv and self-shadowing? They must have known lighting and shadowing was a weakspot in the first game, heck it was a weakspot in Ratchet.

 

[nAo]

What can I say, I guess rendering engineers at insomniac are bot big fans of HDR rendering.
On the other hand they are very good, so I guess they took certain decisions/made certain tradeoffs to give us some amazingly good looking games (see R&C )

 

[Kittonwy]

What can I say, I guess rendering engineers at insomniac are bot big fans of HDR rendering.
On the other hand they are very good, so I guess they took certain decisions/made certain tradeoffs to give us some amazingly good looking games (see R&C )

But why would anyone have anything against logluv? Logluv is our friend.

They need to kill that bloom in SP, I thought it was a bit too much, MP surprisingly looks better than SP, maybe because it doesn't have bloom, I don't get the obsession with bloom, few games actually used it well.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

No offense but RFOM is the single biggest first-party PS3 franchise since the system's launch, it's supposed to be this holiday season's blockbuster title for the PS3, why it can't have the best graphics for a shooter on the PS3 is simply puzzling to me, especially given the fact that this is the THIRD game Insomniac is developing on the system and other developers have managed to implement things like HDR lighting and at least character self-shadowing in their FIRST games on the system.

I thought Insomniac was a 2nd party developer...not 1st party.

 

[Kittonwy]

I thought Insomniac was a 2nd party developer...not 1st party.

I meant that Sony owns the IP and is publishing the game, the game is a first-party game.