PS3, Holiday 2006

expletive said:
Only thing i can think of is "Hard Drive Required" for those games. I wonder how far off we are from that actually happening.

When ever it does happen, hopefully most of the 360's out there will be the hdd-equipped model...which I expect to sorta be the case anyway. When MS introduces a bigger harddrive, I imagine the original hdd will be available for a reduced price and/or used, which should push most of the final holdouts into joining the rest of us.
 
Powderkeg said:
Sorry, I guess I'm being too obscure.

The point is you can't make judgements about how pre-launch impressions of a small group of people will affect the overall impression of a game or system.

So, making claims about how a kiosk didn't look good, or how some people think game "X" isn't looking as good as it should are irrelevent. The number of people influenced by the content of a kiosk a month before the system launches is tiny at best, and any game can be a hit or even a system seller before it is released. You simply can't know the quality until you've played the final game.

And again....its not that the final X game will come out well. Its sypmtomatic of a larger issue. How presentation and marketing goes a long way towards what games people buy, or a general impression of said system, building momentum or hype, etc.... Case in point (PDZ) had the game been presented better then all the bad press and MS hideing it away would be less of a problem (possibly a delay in release)!
 
Mythos said:
And again....its not that the final X game will come out well. Its sypmtomatic of a larger issue. How presentation and marketing goes a long way towards what games people buy, or a general impression of said system, building momentum or hype, etc.... Case in point (PDZ) had the game been presented better then all the bad press and MS hideing it away would be less of a problem (possibly a delay in release)!

And again, all of that is irrelevent.

3 months after the Xbox launch no one will remember or care what PDZ looked like at E3 or what filtering CoD was using at the kiosk in Walmart. It simply won't matter.

I guarantee you word of mouth from a friend sells better than any demo, screenshot, commercial, first impression article, preview or review, ever will. Halo basically carried the Xbox for it's first 2 years, and it wasn't because of commercials, screenshots, E3 or how well the Walmart kiosks worked. It was because people found Halo to be a damned fun game and told their friends.
 
eh... lots of the "evidence" for superiority is mumbo jumbo fan speak theory bullshit...

A developer looking at PS3 and X360 launching the same time is not just saying "oh PS3 will have better market share" for sure... or else no one would be making x360 games at all or for any other system other than PS3 for that matter.

They are looking at:

1 - ease/cost of development!
2 - can the power of the system showcase their developmental vision?
3 - what kind of support does the manufacturer provide for the system once it gets to the marketplace?
4 - Are there any other incentives the system/manufacturer provide the developer that they wouldnt otherwise get on the other system? (Think Ninja Theory here)

Thus MS' increased support even in Japan this go round.

As far as cell helping RSX... xenon and xenos were literally made for each other... maybe moreso than cell RSX.... so xenon also "helps" with grpahics for whatever thats worth...

Some theories in this thread are ... priceless.:D
 
So Warner switched the side for Blu-ray to wait for Holiday 2006 when HD-DVD titles are supposed to have been released already?
 
one said:
So Warner switched the side for Blu-ray to wait for Holiday 2006 when HD-DVD titles are supposed to have been released already?

I don't believe Warner ever said they would release titles exclusivily on blu-ray.
 
Powderkeg said:
And again, all of that is irrelevent.

3 months after the Xbox launch no one will remember or care what PDZ looked like at E3 or what filtering CoD was using at the kiosk in Walmart. It simply won't matter.

I guarantee you word of mouth from a friend sells better than any demo, screenshot, commercial, first impression article, preview or review, ever will. Halo basically carried the Xbox for it's first 2 years, and it wasn't because of commercials, screenshots, E3 or how well the Walmart kiosks worked. It was because people found Halo to be a damned fun game and told their friends.

That my friend is not being in touch with the realities of the market....

It may be so that no one remebers or cares about PDZ. I'm sure MS will reminder you or others. Aside from that when people ask what games should I get for the X360 launch others come to mind before PDZ ever comes up. Guess which games are selling more?...that's right Kameo, COD2, and others. Why?...presentation marketing!

Most of your impressions or others are controlled (for the most part) by these companies. How else do you make your impressions...

Don't guarantee me anything..there's been plenty of good games gone under the radar!
 
Gholbine said:
Note: Developers only have 7gb of space per disc for their games on the Xbox 360. 1.5gb of the space is taken up with "security features", or something of the sort. This puts both the Revolution and the original Xbox at an advantage to the Xbox 360 in disc space terms. While the difference between DVD-9 and Blu-Ray (7-1) is not as large as the difference between CD and cartridge (10-1), it's still a significant difference, and this issue was enough to almost single-handedly destroy the N64, when Nintendo was the previous market leader by a large margin. With that in mind, what's it going to do to a company that's not even the market leader? Time will tell, but the facts are overwhelmingly against the Xbox 360 in this instance.

Even if you just want to ignore all of the developer comments about this issue, it's still plainly obvious that disc space requirements jump significantly in consoles every generation, and this is even more true in the coming generation, because of the leap to HD resolution, as well as 7.1 surround sound and higher audio quality. History is an excellent example of what to expect when it comes to disc space requirements, and when in videogaming history has a newer console ever had less disc space than its older counterpart? None that I can remember. While it is unfortunately for Microsoft, the developers and the people buying the system (including myself), it's not entirely surprising that those who wish the system success (including myself) are talking down the issue. However there's also some of us that refuse to blind ourselves to reality by pretending the issue doesn't exist, because quite clearly, it does. I, as with anybody else buying the system, can hope that these 15gb discs are released to alleviate some of this problem.

I'd also like to point out that the days of CGI sequences are not gone, not by a long shot. While real-time rendering quality has certainly improved dramatically in the next-gen consoles, it's still far below what's possible in pre-rendered sequences. Even if the developer chooses not to use pre-rendered sequences, some of the real-time cut-scenes must still be recorded and played back during the game, to avoid flow-stopping loading times. Xenosaga is a perfect example of this. Pre-recorded (but real-time) cut-scenes were in heavy use, because the cut-scenes took place in many different locations throughout the game, and loading times would have killed the directorial flow of these scenes. The game ended up being 2 DVDs. As for “real-time is just as impressive as pre-rendered, if not more soâ€￾, don’t be ridiculous. If you think they’d have been better off showing Advent Children in real time, maybe you should have taken your idea to Square before they blew millions on their pre-rendered work.

Your comparison to PC games was interesting, but it doesn't exactly prove what you wanted it to. The fact of the matter is, console games take more space than PC games... significantly more space, because of compression and streaming issues. Take GTA3 for example. The PC version is about 500mb installed, but the PS2 version is nearly 6 times that, and at half the resolution! Now with console games rivalling PC games for resolution, what's that going to do to the disc space requirments? Suddenly 6x becomes 10 or 12x the space. In other words, comparing PC games to console games for disc space just doesn't work, unless you're trying to prove that console games will always require more disc space than PC games, even if they're exactly the same game.

Just for point of clarification, you should probably revise your numbers, only because I envision the 25GB disc as the primary BD-ROM. However, even with that there is still a significant space difference, just not as large as 7-1, at least initially. If we go by your "DVD-7" then we are left to conclude a 3.6x increase in capacity with regards to a 25GB BD-ROM. Personally, I do wish MSFT had chosen any higher capacity OD, changing discs is not something I truly want to do, but I also envision "HDD Required" games.
 
Gholbine said:
If the BD-ROM in the PS3 is 2x.

I predict a 4x dirve my-self, given the amount of time left until PS3 come's out and the liky price cut's of the drives by then i would more than liky expect sony to shove in a 4x drive.
 
Gholbine said:
Your comparison to PC games was interesting, but it doesn't exactly prove what you wanted it to. The fact of the matter is, console games take more space than PC games... significantly more space, because of compression and streaming issues. Take GTA3 for example. The PC version is about 500mb installed, but the PS2 version is nearly 6 times that, and at half the resolution! Now with console games rivalling PC games for resolution, what's that going to do to the disc space requirments? Suddenly 6x becomes 10 or 12x the space. In other words, comparing PC games to console games for disc space just doesn't work, unless you're trying to prove that console games will always require more disc space than PC games, even if they're exactly the same game.

Actually I think that point might more support xbox360 than it discredits it. As far as I know, most of the launch titles are really not using all the compresion techniques around which the xbox360 was built. It was a long long time ago that I think Allard said that they are aiming to make thing smaller and smaller with xbox360 refering to the data on the disc, and he was reacently making his comments about how some developers were "sloppy".

So I woudln't go by the notion that launch games hardly fit on one disc so how will games later on fit? Usually launch games are bad indicators of what a system can do when it comes to graphics and everything else. The other good having smaller file sizes is that it makes the loading times much shorter and streamming as well since it is faster to read a small compressed file on the disc and uncompress it real time on the fly rather than read the whole uncomressed file directly from the DVD.

As for games on multiple discs, if the game is a linear kind of adventure or something a disc switch during 30-40 hours of gameplay I don't think is a problem. As for free roaming games I see two solution, either the "hdd only" label on them or what I believe, that they will work on all the systems, but those that have the hdd will be able to install the game and have the oher dvd to play with, I mean there must some adavntage to have the hdd after all. Actually I would like to see all the games being ble to do instalation, talk about fast game loadings and stuff then...
 
!eVo!-X Ant UK said:
I predict a 4x dirve my-self, given the amount of time left until PS3 come's out and the liky price cut's of the drives by then i would more than liky expect sony to shove in a 4x drive.


IF Sony was making the big $$$ like MS was, they could sell a $700 system with all the max-out specs(2x CELL + 2x RSX IN SLI+ 1 Gig of XDR-RAM at 6.4 GHZ and a 4x Blu-ray) for only $399......

Seriously, 4x BR-ROM? Sony will def be losing ALOT of Money....2x is fine as it is.....

-Josh378
 
!eVo!-X Ant UK said:
I predict a 4x dirve my-self, given the amount of time left until PS3 come's out and the liky price cut's of the drives by then i would more than liky expect sony to shove in a 4x drive.

There are no blu-ray players on the market, how are they going to have "likely price cuts" before the PS3 hits?
 
!eVo!-X Ant UK said:
I predict a 4x dirve my-self, given the amount of time left until PS3 come's out and the liky price cut's of the drives by then i would more than liky expect sony to shove in a 4x drive.

Well that depends on if the can manufacture the amount that is recuired and the cost. If the cost between a 2x and 4x drive is minimal then maybe yes otherwise I find it more hard to believe, I really don't see Sony wanting to increase the cost of the PS3 furter which seems to be extremely expensive already...
 
The Blu-Ray drive speed is a mystery at this point. I see three options: 1.5x, 2x or 4x.

1.5x would be the lowest Sony could possibly go, being that Blu-Ray movies require 1.5x to play. 2x I see as the most likely option as it's probably the best balance between cost and performance, as I see 2x being sufficient for a games console. 4x is a possibility, since 2x (write) drives have been around for 18 months now (in labs of course), and read speeds are always well ahead of write speeds.

Interesting to see how it turns out?
 
Sis said:
I agree with your outrage, mckmas, and let me be the first to set the record straight! I don't believe for a second that xb, Randy, and l-b have written off the Xbox 360.

.Sis

;)

Exactly. Can i be left out of this. I don't participate in these pathetic threads for a reason afterall (reason being i just tend to read these thread, laugh, and give bad rep when it's needed).
I haven't written off a bloody thing, in fact i can't wait to plug a X360 to my new SAmmy HDTV when i finally get it.
 
london-boy said:
Exactly. Can i be left out of this. I don't participate in these pathetic threads for a reason afterall (reason being i just tend to read these thread, laugh, and give bad rep when it's needed).
I haven't written off a bloody thing, in fact i can't wait to plug a X360 to my new SAmmy HDTV when i finally get it.

And you gave me bad reputation for this post:

Hardknock said:
QFT.

People that write off MS are in for a rude awakening.


Go to fucking hell. Did I say you wrote anything off? I stated "people that write off MS". If you didn't fall into that category why the fuck did you respond? :rolleyes: You shouldn't have any authority around here giving people negative points over shit like that.
 
Hardknock said:
Go to fucking hell. You shouldn't have any authority around here giving people negative points over shit like that.

Yeah that's gonna help your case.

Well actually i wanted to give u bad rep for the one after that one, i just clicked on the wrong one.
You also have one after that one calling someone idiot.
So, i'm very sorry, i should have clicked on the right one. Still, doesn't change the fact that you need to chill out. You get bad rep anyway, whether it was for that post or whatever else. Your behaviour in these boards is appalling most of the time so don't cry when people give you bad rep.
 
Yeah that's gonna help your case.

Help my case? I'm a grown ass man. I can say whatever I want. It pisses me off because me and you have a history and that's the only reason you gave me negative feedback.

For those that would like to see for themselves: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=614830#post614830

You also have one after that one calling someone idiot.
So, i'm very sorry, i should have clicked on the right one. Still, doesn't change the fact that you need to chill out. You get bad rep anyway, whether it was for that post or whatever else. Your behaviour in these boards is appalling most of the time so don't cry when people give you bad rep.

For your information that post has been a couple days ago and yours was the first negative feedback I've recieved. I said you're either blind or an idiot, which other people agreed with. My point was fully backed up with the proof I provided. I speak my mind, some people don't like it, oh well. Still doesn't give you any kind of right to give me negative feedback over that, but whateva.
 
hey69 said:
Since the usa and europe models of ps3 coming end of 2006 /begin 2007, a 4x bleuray drive wouldnt be abnormal :devilish:

I doubt they would launch with a 2x driver and then upgrade t a 4x driver. I think thet would rather see to it that the system either goes down in cost as fast as possible and earn money rather than spending more money...
 
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