PS3, Holiday 2006

[London Geezer]

For your information that post has been a couple days ago and yours was the first negative feedback I've recieved. I said you're either blind or an idiot, which other people agreed with. My point was fully backed up with the proof I provided. I speak my mind, some people don't like it, oh well. Still doesn't give you any kind of right to give me negative feedback over that, but whateva.

I give bad rep when people are unfriendly (like you), aggressive (like you), don't usually listen to people (like you) and many other reasons.

I do not give bad rep because "i disagree with you". Or do you need to know i gave bad rep to Mckmas in the past, lots of times? Going by people's opinion of me, i should give him lots of good rep cause he has a preference for Sony and i have one too, mostly. That's not the case however, and it shouldn't be.

So, no, i do not abuse the rep system according to the "sides" of these pathetic threads.

Your point about "speaking your mind" is largely irrelevant. You should be able to express your points in a much more civil way, that's the real problem with you and many other people around here.

You know, the old "it's not what you say, it's how you say it"...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

LB's joined the ranks of the evil oppressive six-star mods who persecute anyone with a different POV to them. You're a Sony six-star LB, and death to all the MS and Nintendo underlings! Bad-Rep 'em out of existence for daring to disagree with the Playstation-livin' elite that rule this board!

In fairness I think the rep thing works. I'm seeing red and green squares where I think they ought to be. One person was red when I couldn't see why, save maybe one bad post, but they're back in the ranks of the greens now so they were able to recover and behave. I'll also say that turning rep off is annoying. If someone's got a history of being a prat but they hide it under a cowardly blue square (red squares and green-squares alike put aside their animosity towards each other and find common ground in our bitter hatred of the cowardly blue-squares *spit*) it makes them harder to ignore, until you learn who they are. If public rep isn't going to be shown across the board it may as well be deactivated.

Though the system isn't infallible I have to admit. How on EARTH can LB be leadng the race to glorious mega-stardom with 5 stars?!!!!

And this isn't the forum for discussing rep either. This thread is one of those regurgitated debates on console sales. They've been regurgitated so many times now I can't swallow 'em down any more.

 

[Hardknock]

I give bad rep when people are unfriendly (like you), aggressive (like you), don't usually listen to people (like you) and many other reasons.

Your point of "speaking your mind" is largely irrelevant. You should be able to express your points in a much more civil way, that's the real problem with you and many other people around here.

Aggressive I can agree with but I don't think I've been unfriendly to anybody here. if you respect me, I will respect you. Bottom line. I'm very open-minded, hell my entire argument this thread was for everyone to be more open-minded. Civility is no problem, but there's nothing in the terms of service that says one cannot use adult language. I wonder if you gave the person I responded to negative feedback for being aggressive and rude? Hmmmmm... Anyway stop cherry picking things out of my posts to give negative feedback on because you don't like me and look at my entire message.

 

[London Geezer]

Though the system isn't infallible I have to admit. How on EARTH can LB be leadng the race to glorious mega-stardom with 5 stars?!!!!

I'm a Good Guy... i give boys sweets, i invite them to my place, i give them more sweets, already-opened-coca-cola's that happen to taste like wine...... i am very good to them.......

 

[London Geezer]

Aggressive I can agree with but I don't think I've been unfriendly to anybody here. if you respect me, I will respect you. Bottom line. I'm very open-minded, hell my entire argument this thread was for everyone to be more open-minded. Civility is no problem, but there's nothing in the terms of service that says one cannot use adult language. I wonder if you gave the person I responded to negative feedback for being aggressive and rude? Hmmmmm... Anyway stop cherry picking things out of my posts to give negative feedback on because you don't like me and look at my entire message.

Or what? You'll bore me to death?!

Look, if you don't like it, you can do one of two things, get over it, or keep bitching about it. One of those will only get you more bad rep and more people against you.

Yes i never liked you, reason being you're just too aggressive.
Stop being so aggressive, and what does "but there's nothing in the terms of service that says one cannot use adult language" mean anyway? Is that your excuse for calling people names, say "fucking" every other word, and generally being an ass, thinking you're covered under the "Speaking My Mind" Agreement for Internet Forums? Is that what you consider "adulthood"? Nice...

As i said, there are many ways you can express your mind with.

Shifty's right, this is not the place to discuss this, if it's such a problem for you that people comment on your posting methods, take it to PM's.

 

[Hardknock]

Yes i never liked you, reason being you're just too aggressive.

This was already obvious. If you don't like me you have no business giving me negative feedback. Period. Like I stated you are the only person that gave me negative feedback.

Stop being so aggressive,

Don't tell me how to post. If you don't like my posting style, put me on ignore. You need to stop abusing your powers and giving people negative feedback for frivolous reasons.

 

[London Geezer]

Don't tell me how to post. If you don't like my posting style, put me on ignore. You need to stop abusing your powers and giving people negative feedback for frivolous reasons.

Don't tell me how to post or how to use the rep system. And don't you dare telling me i'm abusing my "powers". If i were, all MS boys in here would get bad rep and all Sony boys would get good rep. Obviously that's not the case so drop this already.
They're frivolous reasons in your opinion. The reasons i gave are the only reasons people should have for giving bad rep.

 

[expletive]

I'm a Good Guy... i give boys sweets, i invite them to my place, i give them more sweets, already-opened-coca-cola's that happen to taste like wine...... i am very good to them.......

I feel like i need a shower after reading this...

 

[expletive]

Does anyone feel that the GC was held back by its optical media capacity? If so, how? If not, why not?

 

[London Geezer]

Does anyone feel that the GC was held back by its optical media capacity? If so, how? If not, why not?

GC was held back by lack of 3rd party support.
I don't think anyone could possibly complain about GC's hardware, considering the price and the time of release.

 

[Hardknock]

Does anyone feel that the GC was held back by its optical media capacity? If so, how? If not, why not?

Heldback marketshare wise? No.

Game quality wise? Probably. For one I know CG cutscenes were of lower quality because they had to be compressed to fit on the discs.

 

[expletive]

GC was held back by lack of 3rd party support.
I don't think anyone could possibly complain about GC's hardware, considering the price and the time of release.

Do you think 3rd party support was hurt by its optical media capacity? I don't recall any published complaints, not like developers are required to voice such complaints publicly of course.

 

[mckmas8808]

In fairness I think the rep thing works. I'm seeing red and green squares where I think they ought to be. One person was red when I couldn't see why, save maybe one bad post, but they're back in the ranks of the greens now so they were able to recover and behave. I'll also say that turning rep off is annoying. If someone's got a history of being a prat but they hide it under a cowardly blue square (red squares and green-squares alike put aside their animosity towards each other and find common ground in our bitter hatred of the cowardly blue-squares *spit*) it makes them harder to ignore, until you learn who they are. If public rep isn't going to be shown across the board it may as well be deactivated.

Seriously I hope I was that person that received a bad rep and didn't deserve it. I've given a lot to this board in a last couple of weeks and in return I get a bad rep. I know people may not like my style, but most of the time certain people do agree with me. I never say anything completely stupid and an out of the way remark.

That's why I'm starting to use disclaimers. Most people just skim through people's post anyway. I think that's the true problem with some posters not understanding other posters. They see a certain vibe in the first sentence or two and they just skim the rest, resulting in quoting back a mean spirted reponse.

I personally am starting to have some great discussions with some more Xbox leaning people like expletive and Sis. At first things might have been a little rocky but the fact that I respect their opinion and read there whole post gives me a feeling not to hate them.

Thanks for reading now you can get back on topic.

 

[mckmas8808]

Do you think 3rd party support was hurt by its optical media capacity? I don't recall any published complaints, not like developers are required to voice such complaints publicly of course.

Actually I've seen plenty of devs say things about the disc space in a negative way. Of course I've read those quotes everywhere for the last 2 years and some in magazines so giving you a link right now is impossible. You are just going to have to trust me.

 

[Powderkeg]

That my friend is not being in touch with the realities of the market....

It may be so that no one remebers or cares about PDZ. I'm sure MS will reminder you or others. Aside from that when people ask what games should I get for the X360 launch others come to mind before PDZ ever comes up. Guess which games are selling more?...that's right Kameo, COD2, and others. Why?...presentation marketing!

Do you see that bolded part? That's why it's all irrelevent.

Launch is a drop in the bucket. It's the first million or so users, virtually all of which would ahve bought the system and games regardless of what was shown or offered.

For MS, it represents about 2% of what they hope to sell next-gen.

The other 98% don't care. What they will care about is what games are good from 2006 to the end of the systems life cycle, and by that time the Walmart kiosk issue and pre-launch hype will all be forgotten.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The situation is bad. Much worse than some of the Xbox supporters are willing to admit. There's rumours of Microsoft developing a 15gb DVD disc that works with current drives, but even if these rumours end up coming to fruition, and the 15gb discs are released at some point before the end of the Xbox 360 life-cycle, it still puts them at a solid 35gb behind the PS3. While this would certainly help, it doesn't eliminate the problem, not even close..

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hille.

Has there ever been a format before where 95% of the games took up less that 30% of the disc space?

The vast majority of this gen's games are AUDIO and VIDEO. Actual game files and tesctures tend to take up around 05-1GB. So even if we allow for things like textures and the game engine to increase 5x or 10x over, you're still way under 7GB. If they stop doing video, they have even more room...learn to use compression better and be more conscious of storage space and they have even more room.

The majority of games will have no problem fitting on one disc, 7GB is a ton of space to make an excellent game and it will remain adequate throughout this generation, there will be times where 7GB doesn't cut it, but it's far from a huge problem like you seem to think.

On this very tiny fraction of games, the majority of those wil just be spread across 2 discs, or features will be cut until it fits on 7GB. 7GB is still ALOT of space any way you look at it.

I'll remind you we didn't see a growth in the size of XBOX1 launch games to XBOX1 games that are being released today. Why do you expect there to be huge differences in disc size 5 years from now? Last Gen Morrowind set the bar for an above average disc size(3.1GB IIRC) and that remained an above average disc size for 5 years. This Gen Elder Scroll is <7GB.

 

[expletive]

Actually I've seen plenty of devs say things about the disc space in a negative way. Of course I've read those quotes everywhere for the last 2 years and some in magazines so giving you a link right now is impossible. You are just going to have to trust me.

Ok, i dont read much on the GC so i personally am not prone to coming across comments like that.

 

[expletive]

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hille.

Has there ever been a format before where 95% of the games took up less that 30% of the disc space?

The vast majority of this gen's games are AUDIO and VIDEO. Actual game files and tesctures tend to take up around 05-1GB. So even if we allow for things like textures and the game engine to increase 5x or 10x over, you're still way under 7GB. If they stop doing video, they have even more room...learn to use compression better and be more conscious of storage space and they have even more room.

The majority of games will have no problem fitting on one disc, 7GB is a ton of space to make an excellent game and it will remain adequate throughout this generation, there will be times where 7GB doesn't cut it, but it's far from a huge problem like you seem to think.

On this very tiny fraction of games, the majority of those wil just be spread across 2 discs, or features will be cut until it fits on 7GB. 7GB is still ALOT of space any way you look at it.

I'll remind you we didn't see a growth in the size of XBOX1 launch games to XBOX1 games that are being released today. Why do you expect there to be huge differences in disc size 5 years from now? Last Gen Morrowind set the bar for an above average disc size(3.1GB IIRC) and that remained an above average disc size for 5 years. This Gen Elder Scroll is <7GB.

Also, to add on here, i dont think that saying "at 15G it will be 35G less than blu-ray" is a particularly useful comparison. Do you really htink developers can fill more than even a 25G disc with quality content? At some point you have to say "how much is enough for this gen?". Obviously i have NO idea but I think its fair to say that a single Layer BR disc will be more than enough. Is 15G enough? Tough to say but essentially doubling DVD-9 capacity with a 15G FVD ought to help quite a bit.

 

[mckmas8808]

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hille.

Has there ever been a format before where 95% of the games took up less that 30% of the disc space?

The vast majority of this gen's games are AUDIO and VIDEO. Actual game files and tesctures tend to take up around 05-1GB. So even if we allow for things like textures and the game engine to increase 5x or 10x over, you're still way under 7GB. If they stop doing video, they have even more room...learn to use compression better and be more conscious of storage space and they have even more room.

The majority of games will have no problem fitting on one disc, 7GB is a ton of space to make an excellent game and it will remain adequate throughout this generation, there will be times where 7GB doesn't cut it, but it's far from a huge problem like you seem to think.

On this very tiny fraction of games, the majority of those wil just be spread across 2 discs, or features will be cut until it fits on 7GB. 7GB is still ALOT of space any way you look at it.

I'll remind you we didn't see a growth in the size of XBOX1 launch games to XBOX1 games that are being released today. Why do you expect there to be huge differences in disc size 5 years from now? Last Gen Morrowind set the bar for an above average disc size(3.1GB IIRC) and that remained an above average disc size for 5 years. This Gen Elder Scroll is <7GB.

I had to bold all of the important things that I completly disagree with you on. First why do you keep bringing up games sizes of this gen? We are talking about next-gen games here, so shouldn't we be talking about next-gen textures? And how is a 1 GB times 10 still small enough for 360 games? In my school 1 X 10 = 10.

Point being I don't think the argument should be, "next gen games be bigger than 7.4 GBs?" I think the arguement should be, "is two or three disc a bad thing for MS?" Because we all know that games will go past that 7.4 GBs.

 

[expletive]

I had to bold all of the important things that I completly disagree with you on. First why do you keep bringing up games sizes of this gen? We are talking about next-gen games here, so shouldn't we be talking about next-gen textures? And how is a 1 GB times 10 still small enough for 360 games? In my school 1 X 10 = 10.

Point being I don't think the argument should be, "next gen games be bigger than 7.4 GBs?" I think the arguement should be, "is two or three disc a bad thing for MS?" Because we all know that games will go past that 7.4 GBs.

I agree but i think there's a bunch of questions that go along with this:

what % of games will go over 1 disc
will those games primarily be RPGs or all types games?
will gamers care about multiple discs for RPGs? the other games?
If MS can provide a disc with 13G of usable storage, how many games will now be more than 1 disc? Does that change 'everything' in the eyes of developers?
How willt he fact that both Revolution AND 360 be using DVD-9 impact the use of storage beyond the capacity these media?

How can you say that a majority of games WONT fit on DVD-9? What can we base this on?