PS3, Holiday 2006

[Shifty Geezer]

How can you not give any respect to someone with a games portfolio like this?:
Long list of games

This'll answer the question. It's assumed because the guy that wrote these games is creting another game, that game will be triple-A, right? So how many of these past games are triple-A? I'm not sufficiently educated to know them all, but looking at that list I'm seeing some high-quality games well received, and some mediocre titles. How do we know whether his next title is going to be a 'Chrono Trigger' hit or a 'The Bouncer' miss? I'm not seeing a list that is nothing but the best indicating every title Sakaguchi works on can be trusted to be a triple A title. Hence my point that surely we shouldn't assume all the RPG's XB360 is getting are triple-A's but we should wait to see if they're any good or not (unless, my knowledge being too weak to know better, every RPG Sakaguchi has created has been a triple-AAA best quality game when it will be fair to assume the same of future RPG games.)

 

[mckmas8808]

This'll answer the question. It's assumed because the guy that wrote these games is creting another game, that game will be triple-A, right? So how many of these past games are triple-A? I'm not sufficiently educated to know them all, but looking at that list I'm seeing some high-quality games well received, and some mediocre titles. How do we know whether his next title is going to be a 'Chrono Trigger' hit or a 'The Bouncer' miss? I'm not seeing a list that is nothing but the best indicating every title Sakaguchi works on can be trusted to be a triple A title. Hence my point that surely we shouldn't assume all the RPG's XB360 is getting are triple-A's but we should wait to see if they're any good or not (unless, my knowledge being too weak to know better, every RPG Sakaguchi has created has been a triple-AAA best quality game when it will be fair to assume the same of future RPG games.)

No Shifty you're right the game he's creating may be a bust. Or it may be a hit no one knows right now.

 

[Qroach]

Mintmaster...

QFT

 

[c0_re]

Sony's is crazy if this is really true, if they wait until next christmas they better up the clockspeed or add more memory or somthing, I'm not paying 400+$ for a PS3 with if were lucky a 4x Blue-Ray player especially when the system is barely more powerful than the 360.

 

[London Geezer]

Sony's is crazy if this is really true, if they wait until next christmas they better up the clockspeed or add more memory or somthing, I'm not paying 400+$ for a PS3 with if were lucky a 4x Blue-Ray player especially when the system is barely more powerful than the 360.

Crazy? Oh no.

Crazyness would be releasing today with very faulty hardware.
Releasing next year is just safer for them.

 

[compres]

LOL, well maybe not crazy but certainly going to take a hit in market share this gen.

 

[mckmas8808]

LOL, well maybe not crazy but certainly going to take a hit in market share this gen.

How can you be so certain?

 

[c0_re]

Crazy? Oh no.

Crazyness would be releasing today with very faulty hardware.
Releasing next year is just safer for them.

Why would the hardware be faulty? (has anyone heard of dev having issues with the dev kits)

I mean I could see them maybe having issues with the blue-ray drives but besides that what would cause problems, the design seems pretty solid to me.

I think it would be much cheaper for them but 1 year is just to long for them to wait(I want WarHawk NOW!) unless they have more tricks up there sleave which IMO is very possible.

 

[expletive]

Why would the hardware be faulty? (has anyone heard of dev having issues with the dev kits)

I mean I could see them maybe having issues with the blue-ray drives but besides that what would cause problems, the design seems pretty solid to me.

I think it would be much cheaper for them but 1 year is just to long for them to wait(I want WarHawk NOW!) unless they have more tricks up there sleave which IMO is very possible.

AFAIK the deve kits are using 7800 chips, not RSX chips. So to say dev kits are working fine its not really representative of what theyre going to put in final boxes. We still havent heard any word of RSX being taped out or being in production so theyre either tweaking it or having problems getting down to 90nm.

 

[Gholbine]

Anyway, I don't think I'll ever convince you that this is a minor problem. PS3 developers that fill up Blu-Ray discs will do so because they can, not because they need to or because it'll make a much better game. They just won't worry about packing stuff together, and MS will probably provide lots of tools to make it easier anyway.

Yep, I'm sure Bethesda cut audio from Oblivion because they could, not because they had to. I'm also positive that Enchant Arm is using 3 DVDs only because they could, not because they had to. The developers and their games have already spoken on this issue: it's a problem, and the generation has yet to begin. Nothing more need be said about it. Take up your arguments with the developers, not me.

As for your GPU comments: I stick by what I said. The CPU is not so separated from the graphics as you say. It certainly wasn't in the PS2, and logic dictates that it won't in the PS3 either, and using fabricated knowledge of the RSX to back up your point doesn't exactly work either. Will it help with actual vertex or pixel shading? I doubt it, I never claimed anything like that. You did mention animation, however, which is a massive factor in graphics, and the Cell will certainly help in that department.

Also, have you seen this demo:

http://www.ps3updates.com/the_2Dgetaway_2D3_2D20050516072440159.jpg

"rendered entirely with Cell", according to Phil Harrison. Now that doesn't look like something a graphically useless CPU could produce, do you agree?

Most of your CPU and GPU philosophies seem to be stuck on current PC ideas. Consoles are certainly not PCs, especially the Playstation consoles. The CPU was the main driving force behind the graphics in the PS2, and it worked out well for them. Why not the PS3? They're certainly touting the Cell as a very graphically capable CPU, afterall, wasn't one of their original ideas to use a Cell as a GPU?

 

[Platon]

AFAIK the deve kits are using 7800 chips, not RSX chips. So to say dev kits are working fine its not really representative of what theyre going to put in final boxes. We still havent heard any word of RSX being taped out or being in production so theyre either tweaking it or having problems getting down to 90nm.

I have to say that I am a bit surpized that the chip is not taped out yet. How much are they tweaking/redesining it?...

 

[Platon]

Yep, I'm sure Bethesda cut audio from Oblivion because they could, not because they had to. I'm also positive that Enchant Arm is using 3 DVDs only because they could, not because they had to. The developers and their games have already spoken on this issue: it's a problem, and the generation has yet to begin. Nothing more need be said about it. Take up your arguments with the developers, not me.

Actually because it is the begining I am not so worried about the space. I doubt most of those early games are using the compression techniques around which the console was built or procedural synthesis and stuff. Sure some games will not fit on one DVD no matter what, like some long ass RPG or something, but does it really matter so much to swap DVDs one or twice within 40 hours of gameplay.

As for your GPU comments: I stick by what I said. The CPU is not so separated from the graphics as you say. It certainly wasn't in the PS2, and logic dictates that it won't in the PS3 either, and using fabricated knowledge of the RSX to back up your point doesn't exactly work either. Will it help with actual vertex or pixel shading? I doubt it, I never claimed anything like that. You did mention animation, however, which is a massive factor in graphics, and the Cell will certainly help in that department.

Also, have you seen this demo:

http://www.ps3updates.com/the_2Dgetaway_2D3_2D20050516072440159.jpg

"rendered entirely with Cell", according to Phil Harrison. Now that doesn't look like something a graphically useless CPU could produce, do you agree?

Most of your CPU and GPU philosophies seem to be stuck on current PC ideas. Consoles are certainly not PCs, especially the Playstation consoles. The CPU was the main driving force behind the graphics in the PS2, and it worked out well for them. Why not the PS3? They're certainly touting the Cell as a very graphically capable CPU, afterall, wasn't one of their original ideas to use a Cell as a GPU?

Just because in the PS2 the CPU was used to do the graphics stuff, that does not mean it will do it in PS3 as well, different arcihtectures and design philosophies. Even the CPU in the xbox360 can do graphics if you wanted to, a CPU does what you tell it to do...

 

[mckmas8808]

Just because in the PS2 the CPU was used to do the graphics stuff, that does not mean it will do it in PS3 as well, different arcihtectures and design philosophies. Even the CPU in the xbox360 can do graphics if you wanted to, a CPU does what you tell it to do...

But wasn't the PS3 design for the CELL to help with the graphics. EA has said that they are already using 3 SPE's worth of 'data pushing power' to help with the graphics in the new PS3 game. So it looks like you lost this one dude. Sorry.

 

[scooby_dooby]

This'll answer the question. It's assumed because the guy that wrote these games is creting another game, that game will be triple-A, right? So how many of these past games are triple-A? I'm not sufficiently educated to know them all, but looking at that list I'm seeing some high-quality games well received, and some mediocre titles. How do we know whether his next title is going to be a 'Chrono Trigger' hit or a 'The Bouncer' miss? I'm not seeing a list that is nothing but the best indicating every title Sakaguchi works on can be trusted to be a triple A title. Hence my point that surely we shouldn't assume all the RPG's XB360 is getting are triple-A's but we should wait to see if they're any good or not (unless, my knowledge being too weak to know better, every RPG Sakaguchi has created has been a triple-AAA best quality game when it will be fair to assume the same of future RPG games.)

With all due respect, comparing Lost Odyseey to Brute Force is bordering on ridiculous.

The odds this game is a flop are miniscule. It's either going to be good, great, or amazing. The game has a huge budget, they've hired extremely talented artists like the guy who did concept art from Day After Tomorrow, the story looks AMAZING, the setting looks awesome (VERY FF3-ish), and it's being headed up by Sakaguchi a man with ALOT of talent. In addition to that, he's stated roughly a 1/3 of his team are ex Square employees, some of those are probably team leads, so ALL signs point to HIT!

Your comments might be somewhat more accurate if we lived in a vacuum and had no knowledge of this game, but we know what it's about, we've seen the trailer, we've heard the story, we know the talent on his current team, we know the money being pumped into it, put all that together and apply a little common sense reasoning. You'll see that comparing it to Brute Force is laughable, NOT going to happen.

BTW - AAA to me simply means extremely high quality game that does not have to be defended, it's widely accepted as very good game, that's what I meant by AAA, you can substiute that with "extremely high quality"

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I repeat, I'm not suggesting the game will be bad, but how do we know it'll be triple-A? You answer this yourself...

The odds this game is a flop are miniscule. It's either going to be good, great, or amazing.

If it's good, or great, which it might be, it's not triple-A. Hence the idea that 'XB360 is already getting 8 triple-A RPG's' is premature, because we don't yet know if these titles are going to be that good, or just good, or maybe even mediocre, or maybe have a fundemental floor that makes them pretty pants as sometimes happens. Like Black and White which never fulfilled it's potential.

 

[mckmas8808]

BTW - AAA to me simply means extremely high quality game that does not have to be defended, it's widely accepted as very good game, that's what I meant by AAA, you can substiute that with "extremely high quality"

I always thought people saw AAA as extremely high quality. Games like Nintendogs, GTA:SA, Halo, Half-Life 2, God of War, Metal Gear Solid 3, etc.

 

[Powderkeg]

So a future format is going to target the state of existing tech?

If it wants to sell it will. otherwise it will become failed tech, like many other Sony "standards" that never amde it.

1% market? Is the install base going to freeze in its tracks today?

At an average price of $3,000+ for a 1080p set, do you think it's going to radically change any time seen?

A 1080p format will ensure optimal quality for all lower hd standards. This is getting ridiculous.

It also costs more, uses more disk space which increases the odds of defects, and offers absolutely no advantage to the studio.

Hollywood has never been known for supporting "the best." They do "just enough" to get the sales, anything beyond that is a waste to them. If it doesn't translate into increased income for them why would they bother?

 

[Hardknock]

But wasn't the PS3 design for the CELL to help with the graphics. EA has said that they are already using 3 SPE's worth of 'data pushing power' to help with the graphics in the new PS3 game. So it looks like you lost this one dude. Sorry.

They could be refering to physics. I'm curious of the context, do you have a link to their statement?

 

[Platon]

But wasn't the PS3 design for the CELL to help with the graphics. EA has said that they are already using 3 SPE's worth of 'data pushing power' to help with the graphics in the new PS3 game. So it looks like you lost this one dude. Sorry.

Never said that the CPU will not do, even on xbox360 they will do it, but this is not a PS2 where most the graphical job was done on the CPU. It was mostly the comparison to the PS2 that I objected to. CPUs have awlays helped out the GPU. As for EA pushing the graphical limit so hard that the RSX is not enough for them and need to use the Cell as well, well that I REALLY need to see, although that "data pushing power" could mean whatever, where do they come up with all those "terms"...

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya those are the possibilities, I had to show why your comparison to Brute Force was way off the mark. Obviously I can't say it's a gauranteed smash. But the likelihood is very high IMO, due to the production value of this game, the trailers i've seen, and talent in charge, this will be an extremely good game.