[PS3] God of War III Pre-Release

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I don't think the quote regarding framerate is very accurate.

The N4GA interview said that the framerate was either 30fps OR 60fps depending on the "weapon", not sure what this means but I don't think it will VARY from 30fps to 60fps depending on the action. It sounds like it will be locked based on what level you are in.
 
Oh I see so the impressions from some sites about motionblur etc was not from CES 2010 but some other event else they could not have hinted for motionblur etc?
I don't know the exact event but the public were only allowed to play the same old E3 demo while the new build was shown only to a handful. But there are sufficient evidence on the web quoted from the devs themselves to indicate that MB is in.
I was talking in generic terms because the post I've replied to was a generic issue as well.
Ah I see. But personally I think the art style in GOW3 is quite solid, strong contrast in lighting, color and a simple color pallet inspired from "300". The textures aren't strictly photorealistic but comes with subtle brush strokes here and there. The game is giving me a Beowulf feel sometimes.
orpftg.jpg
 
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a really good read here But with Spoilers on the locations we will discover, bu worth reading
here some interesting parts without the ones contening spoilers

http://ps3.nowgamer.com/previews/ps3/863/god-of-war-iii?o=0#listing

we see a bronze man, being referred to as the Brute, guarding the area and attacking Kratos. This almost labyrinthine-looking area will pit Kratos against the large metal man and his more than intimidating hammer. Thankfully some light QTE work will see his hammer stolen and used against him. And the QTEs are an element of God Of War that is worth dwelling on. Again and again they deliver exciting and extraordinary moments and yet QTEs are so often a divisive gameplay element. It made us wonder what Sony Santa Monica’s secret is.

Having said all that Asmussen was very complimentary of God Of War’s so-called competition and the way they implement similar ideas to those of his title. “We always look at the Devil May Cry games or Bayonetta, which is a great game, and Ninja Gaiden,” he revealed. “Those games in terms of nuts-and-bolts combat stuff offer a lot of inspiration to us. I just played the demo for Dante’s Inferno and I thought the controls were really tight on it and I thought it was interesting. The Capcom, Devil May Cry games kind of do their own thing and they have their own language and it’s fantastic and as I said we’ve learnt a lot from it inspiring us right from the original game. There are other games that seem to be drawing inspiration directly from the language that we have built and Dante’s Inferno is doing a really good job at that I think.”

However, God Of War III is expanding on what the franchise has seen before and attempting to push well beyond anything games like Dante’s Inferno or Bayonetta have attempted.

Asmussen believes we’re beginning to see games move past their basic mechanics and onto something much more dramatic and emotionally fulfilling. “You can see just a few years into this generation just how much more believable these games are now, blending the line between what’s a nuts-and-bolts gaming experience and what is more of an almost theatrical type experience while making those really cohesive together,” he told us. “I think tapping into the power of the system is one thing, but all of the new features that it exposes and makes available need to be learned and be used properly and we have to make sure we’re not overwhelmed by them. If you’ve got a thousand knobs to fiddle with you could just sit there and fiddle forever and not get anything done. There’s another fine balance between organising the technology and making sure we’re productive using it and getting things done. I think you can see a lot of games that look like they have a lot of promise through screenshots or movies that you see and they don’t really live up to that promise.” But one game in his mind has managed to pull this all off. “To make something like an Uncharted 2 where the whole product is harnessing the technology and utilising it is quite a complicated task,”He concluded.

The PS3’s power alone isn’t a miracle worker thoughand there are some things that while valued by Asmussen, he simply doesn’t see working in God Of War. Despite persistent rumours of multiplayer or co-op gameplay coming to the series for the first time, he insisted that no such features would be coming to the game despite how cool they could have been to see. “To be honest with you we’ve talked about it a lot, we’ve looked at it, we had some good ideas and with co-op I think you could definitely do some cool things with this game,” he revealed. “Doing one of our mini-games with two players at the same time would be pretty cool. There’s a lot to be said for that and I think the big thing with God Of War III was that adding something like that to it would disrupt the experience we had for the first two games. I can see how it would be great for gameplay and it could be great for sales. There’s always this push for multiplayer games because it obviously increases your chances that people aren’t going to return the game after they beat it. We had to keep on following the rhythm that we had set before and I think something like co-op or multiplayer would be tampering with that.”

But there is that question of value. Is a single-player game enough these days? Do PS3 gamers expect and perhaps even deserve more for their money than that? Again Asmussen’s reasoning is sound and unwavering. “I can understand why people might have those expectations because there are so many games that have the single-player and multiplayer experience, but one thing I would say to that is very few games do them both well,” was his reasoning. “You say that you get better value because you get the multiplayer experience, but most of the time it’s at the cost of both of those. I would say there’s only a handful of games that do it right and most of the ones that do have a very small single-player experience, like five or six hours. So it kind of depends on what you want to deliver to the player. Of course the player wants everything, they want a game with $100 of gameplay and they want to extend that with multiplayer that is the best in the world, but there is a limit to what we can deliver and as a team we have to decide what we think we can do best.”

And by concentrating on the single-player experience and making it the very best it can be he hopes that God Of War III players will form an attachment to the game that long outlives its playing time. “I grew up playing games long before multiplayer games and I had no problem just picking up a game that was a single-player experience and if it was really good and I felt that I got my money’s worth I would keep it. It’s just like getting a movie that you feel you have a connection with. It’s something that represents strong personal feelings that you had while you were playing the game.”

Also new but small pics :

http://i50.tinypic.com/28gyt4z.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2nq5pjl.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/20ayja0.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/zx45u1.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/qnwc5d.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/15x73w2.jpg
 
I just don't get the love for multiplayer games. Give me a good single player game and I will be satisfied. God of War games are very single player-focused, it does not need multiplayer at all. As much a I love the Halo games, I play them just for there single player's worth.
 
Maybe that guy confused it with DOF. It tends to happen often. But yeah, we should wait to see more recent footage to confirm its presence.

Yea, I'm sure he confused it with DoF, which is clearly in every screen released. :rolleyes:

scooby - The difference between my judgement and others is that I'm only talking about things I can see. The textures look good, poly count is good, AA looks good, DoF looks good. Just writing it off as "unimpressive" is silly if you haven't seen that area in motion.
 
I kinda disagree though, for what geometries are been rendered on screen including all the enemies, kratos, Mt.Olympus, titans especially Gaia and her bush, "OK that came out wrong", the level of poly count are anything but mediocre. The textures are fantastic in quality especially on Kratos and Gaia, if anything they are at least on par with the Shambahala level from UC2. As for lighting and shaders, it's a night level so we wont see the sun and I thought the water effects looked cool even on a screenshot. But you know, that's just me.
And found some 1080p shots too. http://www.flickr.com/photos/playstationblog/4285390764/sizes/o/



Goodness Gracious !!! :oops: ! Actually a moving level. I thought we wouldn't really experience it once we are on the titan !
 
*...polish...*

I think it's more than fair to say that it's waaaaaay too early for such claims. GOWIII isn't even out yet and you'd need to play both to make such a conclusion in regards to polish and refinement.
 
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Less then 3 months to release suggest a relatively low amount of polish work left to do.
 
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Goodness Gracious !!! :oops: ! Actually a moving level. I thought we wouldn't really experience it once we are on the titan !

Yap, I think if they manage the camera well (pan, zoom in and out where necessary, like U2's platforming), the combat can become confusing in a good way. :)

Less then 3 months to release suggest a relatively low amount of polish work left to do.

Yes, but the shots and trailers you saw may be old. We know at least the motion blur effect is not turned on in those media.
 
Less then 3 months to release suggest a relatively low amount of polish work left to do.

I didn't mean the time frame left, but the fact that we're going by screenshots (GOWIII) VS. a released game (Darksiders). If I went by mere online media, I'm not sure if I'd give a nod to Darksiders.

Care to elaborate a bit more on what you precisely meant by polish and refinement? It sounded like you prefer the art direction of DS.
 
What does polish even mean, I can understand with respect to game bugs, but graphics? Does it imply they are shiny like with Turtle Wax? I think people just use obtuse terms so they are purposely unclear and hope to avoid evidence which counters their claims. Another is "art direction", very subjective nebulous term.
 
Well, I don't think it's wrong to be unimpressed by GOW3. I am not as stunned by the graphics (compared to U2 and KZ2). At the same time, I don't think Darksider is any more impressive. Darksider looked pretty normal to my untrained eyes when I scouted for the next game to buy a few weeks ago.

I do think that the GoW series has fantastic enemies. The pacing and scenarios in the short demo and past games are stellar. I am also impressed and very curious about the big moving set pieces and how they affect gameplay.

EDIT:
Just saw this in GAF:
zx45u1.jpg

Larger version: http://www.playstationuniversity.com/wp-content/uploads/wppa/3953.jpg

Something dramatic like this will grab my attention more. Now show me the final image after motion blur and other treatments.
 
I tried the E3 demo today and the stutter is kind of hard to get used to after the smoothness of GOW1 in the GOW collection. Also the gameplay seems to be to much piled on top of each other. The "head-that-finds-secrets" seems like a really idiotic idea for a GOW game.

I was pretty unimpressed unfortunately.....
 
Also, it seems like Edge was right in there "100 games you should play" feature. GOW is getting fatter and fatter, more stuff just added without it being particulary cool or fun to play...
 
Gah... I haven't played GoW2. Is it lesser than GoW1 ? I thought they got rid of the dreaded platforming in GoW1 ?

I can see how the drop to 30fps in some parts will offend hardcore gamers though.
 
If you guys can't see the difference between these last two images, then there really isn't much reason for me to try pointing them out for you. Nevertheless, I'm going to give a try to explain my reasons; even though some of you clearly don't deserve the effort based on some of the comments.


In sculpture, there's usually a 3-level approach to form. Primary forms define the general shape of something, like a character: arms, legs, head (these can usually be approximated by boxes, cylinders and spheres). They're also called low frequency details.
Tertiary forms are the various surface textures, like skin pores and wrinkles and veins, dents and scratches, bolts and wires etc. etc. These are also called high frequency details.
Secondary forms lie between the two and are what really give character to a sculpture. A good piece of work also balances the three main levels of details with each other in a harmonic fashion, and use them to guide the eye around the piece.

The trolls on that GOW3 picture are quite obviously missing good secondary forms. There are some simple large shapes and some high frequency detail, but there's almost nothing between the two.
This can also be said about most of the other elements of the scene, including the chain links, the floor and walls, and to some level, even Kratos.
There's also been a comparision picture of Kratos and Beowulf, and the same can be said about the faces. Kratos has the big forms - nose, cheekbones, brows, mouth etc. - covered, and there's an appropriately high resolution skin texture thrown on top of it all; but the transition between the two levels is once again abrupt . The upper bodies aren't in such a big contrast, but that's due to the strange shapes on Beowulf - the muscle sim (and pretty much of all the animation and rigging) in that movie was quite off the mark.

It also bothers me that most of the high frequency detail seems to be created by taking some existing texture and just throwing it on top of the model. It's either a photo texture with some Photoshop work to disguise it, or some generic 'metal' and 'skin' and 'elephant skin' stuff.
But in reality, these tertiary forms are created through some process, which effects their placement and general look. Dents and scratches appear more often at places where a weapon may get into contact with something (in case of a sword, the edges), skin pores and wrinkles develop based on how the tissue is pushed and pulled over the muscles and bones, dirt gathers up in recesses. All this can be replicated when an artist takes charge and decides where and how to create these details - just applying a 'metal' texture won't be enough.
Once again GOW3 displays randomly placed details, many times not appropriate to the nature of the given object.

Then there's color, which I'm not that much into, being a modeler and not a texture artist; but suffice to say that similar issues would be discussed with regards to primary and secondary colors, how they complement or contrast each other, and also saturation and balance and harmony. Then there are the surface properties - how strong the specular highlights or reflections should be, also depending on the wear and tear, and should they be sharp or soft. And of course the art style should be maintained through all parts of the game, despite having dozens of artists working together with their own individual approaches and preferences.

Then there's putting it all together with lighting and effects - how much key light, how much fill, how to set their color, how sharp the distinction. GOW3 here is very rough again, lots of sharp contrast with a lot of overexposed highlights and plenty of bloom to emphasize it even further. All this combined with sharp shaders and normal maps and little fill light.

In the case of the Darksiders screenshot, I consider most of the above mentioned issues to be covered properly. Plenty of interesting forms and shapes balanced out nicely, lots of color that's used very carefully, soft lighting that still has enough contrast to properly bring out all the secondary forms in the normal maps, and so on. They also make sure to manually darken the textures in areas that are not supposed to receive light, so you don't get bright inner mouths and ears, fluorescent teeth or stuff like that.
It also helps that the designs are usually more creative and ambitious, even if not that original. Check out this gallery from one of the concept artists:
http://autodestruct.com/concept.htm


Obviously, taking proper care of all these things takes a lot of time, constant iteration of making changes and checking them in the engine, and so on - this is the most expensive part of asset creation (not the software, hardware and such).
So, I'd say that the most likely reason behind the quality difference between the two games is quantity; GOW3 will probably feature more types of enemies, larger levels, and thus there's less time to spend with each individual asset.
It also has to matter that Darksiders is Joe Mad's pet project and the man himself is a successful comics artist - so he probably spends quite a lot more attention on the artwork in his game.

It's also interesting that the first two GOW games were much more like Darksiders, spending a lot of time on making each piece of art look as good as it can, maximizing the texture and poly budgets and creating a softer light with more ambience. Which is why I consider the sudden transition to new technology another issue - Joe's team members, at least the ones I know through various CG art forums, have already had experience when they've started. And of course the game has spent more time in development, having been announced in 2006 or so; although I have to mention that most of the stylistic elements and the general level of polish have already been there.
 
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Laa-Yosh, I think developers owe it to themselves to educate the consumers. I certainly don't see a lot of the things you highlighted above prior to your post. Now, I can vaguely see where the concerns are (e.g., Kratos' ears are too small).

I suspect the mob is looking at different things: The spectacles, the technical graphics, and the overall (if crude) visual experience.
 
Some people are easy to wow with simple things. Most of the artistic criticism above applies (a lot more in fact) to that often mentioned HL2 mod or whatever that replaces a lot of content (the one with the freaky Alyx based on Adriana Lima). And yet a lot of people find it impressive; the most ridiculous aspect for me is a door that's basically a simple plane textured with the high-res digital photo of a real door. It's as if you'd take a cardboard poster of that thing - no depth to the forms, no material properties, no reaction to lighting. And still it's treated as something wonderful ...

And rest assured, were it not for issues regarding PS3's technical capabilities, there would be no talk about the engine features at all. The general audience just doesn't care if there's this or that feature...

But I think that developers should not need to 'educate' or anything, it's not their job. All they can thrive to do is to deliver the best possible art they can do and those who appreciate it will (hopefully) come to them. You don't educate about art galleries and museum exhibitions either, or do you? :)
(And no, I don't go to such things as often as I should either...)
 
Well, many of your points are not obvious, especially in a mythical game world. Layman would find it hard to appreciate.

I don't think people are simply wowed by simple things. There are amazing work done in GoW3, just not the type you're looking for from a pure artistic viewpoint.
 
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