I'll be very disappointed if the PS3 isn't an unfolded hypercube. (reference to a book i just read, the joke will be lost on... everyone...)rabidrabbit said:
PS Business Briefing 2006 March official info
- Thread starter one
- Start date
V3 said:
I generally agree with this. However, one thing I'm not clear on is whether XDR attached to CELL would need the same spec as XDR attached to RSX, i.e. 400 MHz ( 3.2 GHz effective on a 64bit bus) XDR spec chips may not apply to XDR for RSX (64/128 bit bus). So essentially there would be two types of XDR chips...
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Good call!!! I'm impressed!Danalys said:
Book is Factoring Humanity by Robert J Sawyer. Probably the best book i've ever read... (the movie Contact was based on some of the ideas on this book by the way, you'll feel familiar with some events if you watched the movie)
perhaps the whole 4d thing is less about persistant worlds and more about changing in game environment so that they reflect the real world equivalent at the time. in their getaway example they could take weather data from satalite and use that to mimic it in the game world. traffic reports could be used also. which would be okay for free rooming but i wouldn't want a traffic jam to make an objective impossible to complete for the next how ever many hours. anyway this could easily end up going unused by developers. turn out as one of his dreams that never materialised.
on top of that they could give you the ability to go to any point in time that they have the apropriate records for. or a game could start at a secific time. thus the time it took you to complete objectives could effect the weather you would have to deal with in later levels.
on top of that they could give you the ability to go to any point in time that they have the apropriate records for. or a game could start at a secific time. thus the time it took you to complete objectives could effect the weather you would have to deal with in later levels.
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wow so if we buy a PS3 we get a ticket to the 4th dimension? So can the PS3 properly calculate the other 10 dimensions in the string theory or is it just regulated to the 4th?
Yea getting sick of this esoteric hyperbole crap from Sony, the PS2 was far from a technoligical marvel with it's emotion engine. The only Emotion I have for the PS2 is severe disapointment on a machien that wasn't even as good as the dreamcast.
Yea getting sick of this esoteric hyperbole crap from Sony, the PS2 was far from a technoligical marvel with it's emotion engine. The only Emotion I have for the PS2 is severe disapointment on a machien that wasn't even as good as the dreamcast.
DigitalSoul
Regular
swanlee said:
It has gotten to you, uh? Disgruntled PS2 customer?
Anyways, all that stuff is pretty meaningless to me. However, I have nothing against KK sharing his rather "interesting" visions. You guys just shouldn't read into it so much.
"You guys just shouldn't read into it so much"
It's not us it's the blind media and blind ******s that give sony a pass on lying, and spin them to be the second coming. Seems people and the media are really selective letting sony get away with thr hyperbole but trying to crucify other companies for less.
It's not us it's the blind media and blind ******s that give sony a pass on lying, and spin them to be the second coming. Seems people and the media are really selective letting sony get away with thr hyperbole but trying to crucify other companies for less.
wco81 said:
swanlee said:
Will you just get over it and stop nagging?! If you don't like it, don't buy it. You don't like their marketing, we get the point. Enough already. ALL your posts are attacks at Sony for some reason or another, why bother continuing if you have nothing to contribute to the topics?
Phil said:
I think these posts need to be pasted into every thread in the forum
Btw, Sony has pulled off one of the best executed marketing moves I have ever seen.
- Perfect E3 showing.
- Perfectly timed MGS4 video: Realtime footage of an impressive measure
- Ambiguous Spring 2006 launch date kept fans hopeful, tense, and focused
- 10 months of basically no leaks
- Waited until the last minute to announce the "delay" which in turn
- Creates only 6-8 months of "real" waiting
Sony basically made 18 months of waiting -- while they milked the PS2 an extra year! What is the point of being the market leader if you cannot milk profits -- half that. And with the perfect execution they were able to keep gamers focused on them--not MS.
Sony's business brief was also excellent! They raised more questions than they answered. People are now running around asking, "What did this mean?" The ambiguity is intentional. It is a form of progressive marketing. And they basically bought developers ~18 months of dev time with dev kits with some form of CELL and a NV SM3.0 GPU. (Look at the nasty side effects of the 360 dev kits). And 8 extra months of dev time on a system that we can all agree requires new approaches to development will be a big win. Just look at what 3 months did for GRAW.
And Sony can sleep easier knowing that MS, who have had a lot of momentum, have been incapable to capitolize. They have the demand, but as time goes by and more Sony PS3 media (E3!) appears and the PS3 grows nearer that grip on the market will lessen.
But there are flies in the ointment.
- 6M units... by the end of fiscal 2006 (March 2007). Lets be generous and say they have 2M units in November and another 1M promptly get out of the factories and into supply channels quickly, so ~3M units. PS3 demand > 360 demand. Of course the problem is Sony cannot committ to a token launch in Japan like MS did. Further, Sony is hitting more markets (Australia).
Hint: I hope you pre-ordered... last year. This is going to absolutely SUCK in regards to availability even if they hit production landmarks.
- Production issues. Glad others brought this up (so I would not be crucified!) Unless there are severe caps on Blu Ray production (1M cap), you scratch your head and say, "Why not start RSX and CELL production now if the chips are done as the slides say?" At least make enough to have 4 or 5M units ready for launch day.
We all saw how MS's lofty production goals got axed in half. The PS3 is more complex on almost every account. Larger processor, two types of memory, HD optical drive, etc. More cutting edge technology = more ways things can go wrong.
I really hope London-Boy gets his PS3 in April of 2007!
- No sign of a price tag anywhere. What was that KK? Save now? Whats that again? Not a poor mans Blu Ray? I have a hard time believing $399 w/o a HDD. I am thinking more along the lines of $549 w/ a HDD. Does not matter. 65nm will be on deck late 2007 & every single PS3 built until then will sell regardless of price. The 360 proved that.
- Games. In general the delay should help the quality of games. It should also mean more variety at launch. Gamers win. In most cases Developers win. But the rosey picture some are spinning for PUBLISHERS is really out of touch. Launch titles are fillers. Few games are released and they are big fish in a small pound.
Now all of the Spring 2006 & Summer 2006 are pushed forward to Launch day. So instead of 10 titles this Spring, 10 spread out of the Summer, and another 20 or so really good Fall titles there is going to be a glut and a lot of titles will be lost in the mix. I am sure Publishers WILL reslot some titles, especially ones needing more work. But all that does is hurt profits. There is a reason EA is such a hard*** when it comes to having titles hit target dates. In many cases a game, especially within a sequal, it is more important to hit a date than to hit quality (blame stupid gamers for this). All of a sudden the tenative plans of having 2006 revenue from the PS3 are gone. Instead of having 6M units in 2006 we are looking at 6M units some time in 2007.
Any way you dice it the money people, the Publishers, are not going to be happy. Those first launch titles that are adequate for a thin launch will get lost in the swarm of more refined cross platform titles like SC
A, Rainbow Six, MoH, Ghost Recon, etc.As a gamer we really need not care too much about this, but since this is a more advanced discussion forum it needs to be noted and not white washed.
A side effect of this (one I already think took hold) is more cross platform titles. Lets assume MS hits their 10-12M units in their time frame and Sony likewise avoids all production issues and hits 6M by the end of fiscal 2006. Unless Sony can really crank up the 1M a month (I would think it would crank up after the 65nm chips came online in late 2007) we can guess about 15M PS3 units come the end of 2007 if everything goes really well. The 360, again relying on the company estimates, should have a few more than that. As a Publisher I am very serious about maximizing my profits and putting my game on both machines. Why cut my market in HALF? By fall 2007 there will be a lot of games on the market and more competition. The insane attach rate of CoD2 will be a thing of the past. MGS4, Gears of War, and all the other big titles will be out. Halo 3, GTA4, FF13, etc will be looming. As a Publisher I HAVE to maximize my profits.
In a nutshell, by not launching in early 2006, at least in Japan, production wise I have a hard time seeing Sony passing MS in 2007. This means more MS support. This ain't good for Sony (who will end up being the market leader at the end of this generation).
- Nintendo. If Sony comes in high, what happens if little Nintendo comes in at $199 with some really REALLY fun games? What if Nintendo slams retailers with millions and millions of units? People may just put off the PS3 until it drops in price. Ditto if the PS3 has a hard time differentiating itself from MS. If games like Rainbow Six look just as good on the 360...
Now most gamers are not graphic hounds like us, but it is important for the PS3 to establish it is superior (orat least give that illusion, whatever camp you come from). Cross platform titles that look the same wont do that. I have a hard time believing all of MS's new IPs (Crackdown, Blue Dragon, Too Human, Mass Effect, Gears of War) will be hits, but what if a good handful of titles are really good and technically on par with what the PS3 puts out?Sony really made this an interesting next-gen by delaying. (Which I called waaaaay back at E3! The slides about their SDK and controller finalizations indicate a delay was in the works as early as fall 2005). A Spring 2006 Japan launch would have meant 6M units in Japan this year at their predicted production levels. That is a big buffer and really swings momentum in their favor with an almost guaranteed market lead by the end of 2007.
Sony really are the kings of PR and Hype. The future looks interesting, but they pulled off the PERFECT marketing campaign. I have no doubht, based on last E3 and the last year they will be prepared to exectute PERFECT at E3 2006. And even I am pretty geeked out about their MCPC features. MS has really disappointed me there. They want to get into the living room but do little to leverage their PC experience. Sony has no qualms leveraging their consumer elecontronic advantages. MS needs to stop worrying about the WMC PC and bring more MC functionality to the 360. It is sad the Xbox1 MC is more robust in some ways. There is no reason it cannot have a browser, email, music download service, TiVo upgrade HDD, and an eye to more future ideas.
I have a hard time believing Sony wont make a ballsy move to make the PS3 the platform/"computer" they envisioned. It will be more media focused (as that makes them money) but I can see stuff like OpenOffice making its way there and with something as basic as a Printer option we could see people questioning the need for a cheap eMachine PC and just get a printer for their PS3. That may not be in the early cards due to the hardware losses on the PS3, but I think MS has really missed the boat on making the 360 a more robust media device. The hardware is there, but MS's stubbornness hurts them here. Times are changing, protecting old revenue streams and disregarding the future can be dangerous.
Yet another amazing post from our Acert.
DigitalSoul
Regular
Wow, Acert. I actually read all of that...
Good post nonetheless.
Good post nonetheless.
GB123 said:
It is what it is, on both sides of the fence. Really no point noting the obvious. Public forums that attract people who are active fans of markets and platforms are going to be deeply divided on these issues. The market competition naturally creates us-them divisions and good, smart, friendly people get caught up into it. We are only an extension of market powers. Not much anyone can do about it. Either pick a side or say screw it, lurk, and get whatever products that interests you -- and hope in the meantime someone filters out all the noise and provides some nice summerized information somewhere. You watch long enough it is regulars on party lines for the most part. Not much you can expect from an industry built on Intel/AMD NV/ATI Sony/Nintendo/MS Windows/Linux/Mac. There are reasons people are here, they are fans of said products and voice their opinions. Again, It is what it is. People are not changing so turn on your filters and ignore it.
If anyone needed a reason to know why this is such a big event, notice how the Playstation is in the minds of the casual fan and media. This is from an ESPN article on the WBC--totally unrelated to the market or yesterdays new:
I remember when Atari, and Nintendo after it, were equivalent to video games. "You wanna play some Nintendo?" We currently live in the PS era. Doesn't mean you need to be a fan of PS franchises or like the PS itself or that that status quo will never change, but coming to grips with the reality that Sony is the most important company in the console industry as of today is something people need to accept. (Mainly directed at the gent who was wondering why this thread went the way it did... chlorine + ammonia = ...)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/columns/story?columnist=neel_eric&id=2370525
I remember when Atari, and Nintendo after it, were equivalent to video games. "You wanna play some Nintendo?" We currently live in the PS era. Doesn't mean you need to be a fan of PS franchises or like the PS itself or that that status quo will never change, but coming to grips with the reality that Sony is the most important company in the console industry as of today is something people need to accept. (Mainly directed at the gent who was wondering why this thread went the way it did... chlorine + ammonia = ...)
Nice summary Acert, you put this out very clearly.
I agree with you 2007 should not see huge difference between Xbox360 and PS3 (whatevert the supplies, one or the other being more or less successfull).
My thinking.
You have speak of lot of games to be cross plateform during 2007(i agree, commun sense=money sens for investisor and publishers). In fact lot of games will be cross plateform until one console take a clear lead (2008).
So I come to the point, where xna (advanced tools for xbox360) come out?
We know final dev kit for the ps3 will be in june, when devs can expect the sony tools (all the middelware etc..)?
developement tools are terribly important for cross plateform.
it can be real bad for Sony, is dev tools are not good enought at this time, Xbox360 games should look better (desastrous, the ps3 is more powerfull they paid a lot for this, doubts in consumers mind could be real bad...).
I seem that the Xbox is slightly easier to program too...
that can also be good for sONY : more time to deliver good tools.
I really thing that without this the xbox being know by dev for 2 years (final dev kit summer 2005) and being slightly easier to tap in, the cross plateform could look better on Xbox.
Another important thing to deliver for Sony great devs tools.
I agree with you 2007 should not see huge difference between Xbox360 and PS3 (whatevert the supplies, one or the other being more or less successfull).
My thinking.
You have speak of lot of games to be cross plateform during 2007(i agree, commun sense=money sens for investisor and publishers). In fact lot of games will be cross plateform until one console take a clear lead (2008).
So I come to the point, where xna (advanced tools for xbox360) come out?
We know final dev kit for the ps3 will be in june, when devs can expect the sony tools (all the middelware etc..)?
developement tools are terribly important for cross plateform.
it can be real bad for Sony, is dev tools are not good enought at this time, Xbox360 games should look better (desastrous, the ps3 is more powerfull they paid a lot for this, doubts in consumers mind could be real bad...).
I seem that the Xbox is slightly easier to program too...
that can also be good for sONY : more time to deliver good tools.
I really thing that without this the xbox being know by dev for 2 years (final dev kit summer 2005) and being slightly easier to tap in, the cross plateform could look better on Xbox.
Another important thing to deliver for Sony great devs tools.
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