scooby_dooby
Legend
I agree, they're absolutely doing the best with a bad situation. Their achilles heel here will be supply supply supply...the plan is beautiful..but how will the execution be.xbdestroya said:
PS Business Briefing 2006 March official info
- Thread starter one
- Start date
xbdestroya said:Geo you haven't read the thread have you?
Err, not really.
Thot they might need a little bucking-up. Everybody's all "let's par-tay!" over it? Well, right on then. Congrats! Somebody hand me a glass of champagne already then. [I try to be a full service bon vivant].geo said:Err, not really.
LOL, no worries - understandable.
It's strange to see all the Sony 'fans' on the net absolutely elated and all the news sources basically painting the picture of *delay*. It's rare to see this sort of a disconnect in the way the story is perceived across the media and the readers.
Anyway one thing though that I do lament in all of this is that on the GPU side of things, a six month delay would in theory have allowed for a full half-gen upgrade to the RSX architecture. If it doesn't include G80 tech in it's present iteration, it otherwise could have. Oh well, here's hoping for the best with RSX!
xbdestroya said:LOL, no worries - understandable.
It's strange to see all the Sony 'fans' on the net absolutely elated and all the news sources basically painting the picture of *delay*. It's rare to see this sort of a disconnect in the way the story is perceived across the media and the readers.
Anyway one thing though that I do lament in all of this is that on the GPU side of things, a six month delay would in theory have allowed for a full half-gen upgrade to the RSX architecture. If it doesn't include G80 tech in it's present iteration, it otherwise could have. Oh well, here's hoping for the best with RSX!
Might mean a cost savings. You'd think they'd at least want to look at 80nm instead. Maybe they are.
scooby_dooby
Legend
xbdestroya said:
I think the last thing they need is another potential manufacturing bottleneck.
Yep typical, Sony Delays, sony fans say there was no delay becuase they did not expect it, world wide launch great idea, but it was a bad idea for MS, sony delaying won't hurt PS3 sales they will just drive up PS2 sales, but the delay won't help the 360 at all.
I don't understand the apologetic logic from sony fans, reverse the rolls and the entire internet and every media outlet would be proclaiming that MS is dead in the console business, but they let Sony get away with giving false release info and vague comments about the system, let them get away with no real game footage and CGI movies.
Simply put the media and rabid Sony fans give them a pass on over hype lying and delyaing while they try and Nail MS to the wall.
This a total and complete double standard.
I don't understand the apologetic logic from sony fans, reverse the rolls and the entire internet and every media outlet would be proclaiming that MS is dead in the console business, but they let Sony get away with giving false release info and vague comments about the system, let them get away with no real game footage and CGI movies.
Simply put the media and rabid Sony fans give them a pass on over hype lying and delyaing while they try and Nail MS to the wall.
This a total and complete double standard.
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geo said:
That's if the TSMC outsourcing rumors pan out though. Sony's set to fab RSX on 65nm as soon as the process is ready, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see it on the 80nm half-node, even if available to MS and Xenos in the interim.
There would of course be a cost savings G70 vs G80-based, but still what are we if not able to dream of the possibilities? Certainly if Sony had known in advance that PS3 would be delayed by this length of time, I think they would have set their tech target for the GPU ahead accordingly. (which is the root of my lament)
@Scooby: Not saying they should do it at this point - in fact they shouldn't - just lamenting the lost opportunity a delay vs an actual later target represents. If they knew that BD would take this long to finalize... well, it could have been a plain better system. But that's the risks you take with a new format, and big risks they are.
Now keep in mind I'm still hoping for some G80 tech inclusion as it is - but banking on G70 tweaked. The cache talk recently is a little intriguing though...
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scooby_dooby
Legend
swanlee said:
I don't know what media you're reading, but almsot everything I've read is quite negative, and nobody is really framing this as a good thing.
xbdestroya said:Since you raised it, does he mention what the issue is though Wco? I mean Intel is pretty 'anti' Cell just in general, but I won't say that that's effected this guys commentary. Still that said, I'd be curious to know exactly what the issue is. Is it meeting a certain bin target like Gubbi posited, or is the issue elsewhere? Certainly I maintain that there's no way things could be worse than EE and GS back in the day, but if this Intel dude's got insights, I'm all for insights.
Sounds like yield issues. He's suggesting the number he heard (and he tosses out 87% as an example but not the actual number) is not good.
But then he says maybe Sony sorted it out in the 3 months since he heard this info.
wco81 said:
In the context of yields wouldn't 87% refer to perfect 8-SPE chips though? 87% may be bad for Intel (historically incredible yields), but honestly doesn't sound all that alarming to me, given Sony's past history with console release chips. Still the 87% for 8-SPE confirmation would be good to know; if it is, then chances are that for Sony's purposes the yields are much higher.
PS - Does he emphasize Sony or IBM in the yield figures? It'd be interesting also to know any Nagasaki vs Fishkill comparisons yield-wise.
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He takes pains to say the number is not 87% but it seemed bad to him.
Also, no he doesn't identify which plant.
And he said he can't say more without compromising the identity of the source who was doing him a favor by talking about something which is obviously highly confidential.
Basically the thread is about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD so they were evaluating the claims about the PS3 delay being due to AACS.
There's some skepticism that AACS alone would cause such a "delay" since other players are due way before Nov.
Also, no he doesn't identify which plant.
And he said he can't say more without compromising the identity of the source who was doing him a favor by talking about something which is obviously highly confidential.
Basically the thread is about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD so they were evaluating the claims about the PS3 delay being due to AACS.
There's some skepticism that AACS alone would cause such a "delay" since other players are due way before Nov.
xbdestroya said:
Probably because nobody sane expected a launch anywhere outside of Japan before Fall, with many expecting '07 for EU. For all intents and purposes it is good news if you aren't in japan (which includes most of the internet posters we see). I can't say I'm upset that I'll be able (have a chance to get) a PS3 in November, and I'm sure you Euros aren't disappointed either. It doesn't really seem like a delay from my perspective (as to when I expected to get it with the announced Spring launch and when I'll likely be able to get it after the "delay"). The other news from the conference wasn't exactly what I'd call "bad" either. =p
There is a disconnect because the "spring" launch wasn't understood by the press to be a likely Japan-only happening. Still, it is kind of interesting/funny to see.
We'll either have a repeat of the EE or GS yield problems which led to the PS2 shortages at launch or we won't.
And didn't the PSP have production problems because of the GPU yields too?
I also seem to recall Sony made some kind of a filing around the time of the PS2 launch which listed all the risks, like fabricating on what was then a cutting-edge process, Rambus, etc.
And didn't the PSP have production problems because of the GPU yields too?
I also seem to recall Sony made some kind of a filing around the time of the PS2 launch which listed all the risks, like fabricating on what was then a cutting-edge process, Rambus, etc.
wco81 said:
Well, I mean it would simply be unbelievable for the yields to be *that* bad. EE and GS are truly in a class all their own in terms of yields. I can undertsand bad, but I'm 99% of the mind that they have to be better than the initial PS2 yields were. GS especially was legendary.
They did have yield issues with the PSP as well though... and PSX also. All wrapped up in their bumpy move to 90nm. Cell is SOI so Sony's previous 90nm experience doesn't necessarilly apply like it will to RSX either, but IBM's been doing 90nm SOI for a while so I'd have to imagine in the end, the hiccups couldn't be too extreme over at Fishkill. But IBM did make the comment of 'fastest yield learning' ever with Cell, so that may imply it was unusually bad before. I think after a year now of fabbing though it'd be hard for the Cell to be more of a bottleneck than the BD drives in terms of production, especially since BD is in a holding pattern.
I think that Sony's extremity of delay is simply to recast the launch as global, not because they wouldn't have been able to launch in Japan September or something (with meager volumes) if they wanted to.
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Johnny Awesome
Veteran
xbdestroya said:
Listen, just because a lie doesn't bother you or is totally expected from Sony doesn't make it anything other than a lie. It just means that it is a lie you expected that doesn't bother you. I'm simply stating a fact: KK and Sony lied about Killzone, playable at TGS, February conference, and Spring launch. They have no credibility, so how can there be a celebration?
The title of this thread is "PS Business Briefing", not "Sony fans PS3 party". I don't go into MGS threads to piss on MGS even though I can't stand the series, but this thread is not a PS3 appreciation thread. It's a business briefing and deserves to be treated with the same skepticism that anything MS or Nintendo put out there.
When Sony fans were criticizing the world-wide launch strategy, I didn't go into the thread and tell all the Sony fans they were pissing on the MS party. I debated the points and made my argument. This is a discussion forum.
