Yap, I saw some of those patents. ^_^
If they go ahead and do it, I'm not sure if the first implementation will contain everything in these patents though.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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Yap, I saw some of those patents. ^_^
If they go ahead and do it, I'm not sure if the first implementation will contain everything in these patents though.
Still not buying it, why not just use cheap off the shelf hardware. That makes a very cheap and graphically competitive offering.
bgassassin
Regular
What claims were not met? Multiple AMD, IBM, and Nintendo engineers spent a long time in top secret to produce Wii U. That's not a valid reason for what you're trying to say.
And no one has said Xbox 3 was going to be cheap and underpowered. Look at what I said in what you just quoted. I've already mentioned twice the performance between it and PS4 was debatable when it comes to being more powerful. Like I just mentioned the focus shouldn't be solely on the GPU, but what it's shaping up to be in whole. Your reasoning to support an argument against a non-existing view is not logical as well.
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Agreed here, what else except a perceived generational leap in visuals is going to urge the public to spend $400 on a new console when the current ones will be under $150?
To that end, general public aside, I do believe that MS knows that the hardcore audience will drive the foothold needed to secure success in any console generation. Those folks are fickle and like themselves some grfx.
To an extent, they are doing exactly this. Now - obviously it is in the ways that they are not that hold our interest. Considerations doubtless go into the future shrinks associated with the console, SoC roadmaps, broader corporate synergistic strategies/ecosystems, thermal envelopes, quality control to avoid RRoD repeats, etc etc - all of this needing plenty of engineering talent to work long hours.
In my mind, the console industry is going to face external challenges as never before with this next cycle, and I expect that there is ample thought going into things other than day 1 graphical performance to stand up to a number of different possible scenarios. The losses that both MS and Sony endured at the outset of this last cycle will not be tolerated again, and as such expect transistor budgets that reflect accordingly. Now obviously within those budgets, they will try to make them as interesting and powerful as they can.
Bagel seed
Veteran
A SoC will be more efficient in power and overall cost. Could they have waited til late 2012 to slap together desktop chips in a similar config to the original 360 and have it outperform the SoC version? Possibly. But there's obviously been some planning by MS that wants them to go SoC immediately, and that probably required them to lock down individual components early.
Plus, I have no idea about APU design but how feasible is it to jam in a hot GPU at 2+TF with a CPU?
Kinect costs extra. I think for casuals, the current 360 + Kinect 1 or 2 bundle is good enough for them.
I think the important thing is to keep the vision and implementaiton separate. They don't have to do everything at one shot.
Even for the Cell vision, STI planned out a roadmap and tweaked their plan along the way.
Conversely, it also means that others can attack the same problem via a pure GPU approach. They are all kinda heading towards similar direction.
liquidboy
Regular
here's some choice images straight from those patents and i've put in red some comments..
For all we know, MS could very well be targetting the casual crowd with the next xbox.
If your only reference is patents, I think you are mistaken. BTE means the same thing as 'processing element', except they differentiate between linear and vector processing elements. It reads like patent jargon. What you're describing is reprogrammable logic, like an FPGA, in an epic new architecture, which no-one anywhere is talking about. Even if such a technology exists (which isn't patented - there's no IBM patent for a reprogrammable processor known as a Basic Throughput Engine which can be turned into hardware specific for jobs including a Vector Throughput Array), there's zero chance of it featuring in one of the consoles given everything points to AMD providing the meat of both machines.
IBM-AMD working with Microsoft using huge amounts of teams, patents, and money. This is a big thing not some small insignificant thing being worked on. Nintendo didn't do this.
As this provides more proof that it's not something ordinary and average. Microsoft has never done this before and Nintendo didn't do this.
This is talking about armed guards and new security measures being put into place at their location for the new console.
This isn't some average chipset that happens to be on par with another console, this is unique and is being worked on and prioritized by AMD and working with huge teams at IBM and Microsoft. This isn't the usual chip going into a console, this is something different.
You are not really a source of info and you get your info from others and I don't think you are getting the entire story here. There is a lot missing. You might be getting info from people who are using old dev kits that are more PC like and not final hardware, you could also be getting information that is not complete. That is my opinion though.
It's not going to be a slightly specialized 1.2 TF GPU with ram that is slow with a blitter and a DSP, it's more complicated than that and it's slightly more powerful than what the other guys have. I am not saying it's like the rumors I posted yesterday, but it has to be better than what we know because that doesn't add up.
They could ! But they may earn more with 360 at this point. Then switch over when everything on the other side is ready and cheap enough.
Their main target would be Apple, not just Sony. ^_^
... especially with the newly acquired home automation startup.
I supposed high dollar value may be ok. But as I said, it depends on whether they are ready. The patents are one thing. The real content and apps are another. MS cannot afford another Windows RT debacle.
There's a lot of personal interpretation going on there. Where have you read that IBM have a processor architecture that can redesign itself to do different jobs, and these diagrams don't just represent a processor core like a SPE (IBM's idea of Cell was lots of PPC cores) running a job in software?
So why just not get a few guys at AMD and Microsoft and call it a day. I am still not buying it. AMD is already heading to SOC and so is Intel, it really would be a lot easier and less expensive to hire a few guys to help them take off the shelf hardware and make an SOC.
Microsoft already did SOC work on the New Xbox 360's (The S versions, I do believe). So, exactly why would this cost so much money and work, when this could have been out for November 2012 with the Wii U?
If what you are saying is true, the system would be a lot less complex and a lot cheaper and easier for them to make, so why wait until 2013 to do this? Microsoft could compete with the Wii-U in 2012, why wait a year when you don't have to?
Also why all the security and armed guards at their new location? They never did this before. All of a sudden they are going to do this with a low cost, non-state-of-the-art console?
Nope, not buying it. That is total BS.
That's fine, you don't have to buy it.
I reckon, experts like 3dilettante and ERP can interpret and guesstimate the nature of the beast better. I suppose people can also modify a GPGPU to solve similar raytracing issues. I think as long as people keep an open mind and keep the discussion level-headed (and hopeful), the thread should be fun.
... after we kick a few bozos out, may be myself notwithstanding. ;-)
liquidboy
Regular
From what I can gather these core BTE's are reprogrammable ...
And the stack of these Multi-core processors (4 BTE's + Cache + InBoxes) are scalable upward ...
So who knows, maybe MS will modularize it so that we can slot in another set of 4 BTE's like buying ram today for our PC's. It could be what they're saying in the leaked documents as future proofing the console.
Also from a kernel/OS perspective, if you look at how Windows Phone 8 works they can update some very core low level kernel bits like the base class libraries (BCL) regularly (with the necessary changes in drivers). I can see MS using the same fast paced core OS updates in Xbox that will bring to life various SoC components over time...
You say yourself they are doing what apple do with iPhones. Has any iPhone hardware really innovated or been technically the best phone you could buy at any stage?
Having good security measures only means you don't want people to steal or sneak a product out. It doesn't mean you've reinvented the wheel and are waiting to take over the world with it.
Having good security measures only means you don't want people to steal or sneak a product out. It doesn't mean you've reinvented the wheel and are waiting to take over the world with it.
liquidboy
Regular
Yes they are personal interpretation of the patents, that I read a lot of..
I'll leave it at that and see what Xbox delivers in a couple of months time..
I've seen lots of patents that are productized and are no where near what they were described, so I agree with you on that.. It is all interpretation at the moment..
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