Im fairly sure i remember tunafish who knows way more about all of this than most of us mentioning a minimum of 2x efficiency increase in shaders fron xenos to gcn quite recently. Hopefully he or one of the other devs/engineers can give their opinions on it although its important to take account of what ERP says above that looking at a single metric alone isn't going to give the full picture.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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nunomoreira
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The eficiency may be double on pc, but in consoles developers try to get all the power available coding to the gpu itself, so the shader efficiency advantage is probably much less.
Inuhanyou
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Is that still a rumor? Would not doubt it. With Sega bleeding money like they are, its amusing to think they could blow 700 dollars a unit on pretty much anything at this point, let alone a next generation arcade cabinet.
But again, PS4 and Durango will probably be relatively close. So if 720's GPU is not even 4 times the level of 360 on paper because of "cost concerns" and "heat requirements" or whatever...then PS4 probably won't be too far behind.
At that point though i don't even see the point of releasing a new console outside of desperation because of market shrinkage in your sector. Its been 7 years after all.
But again, PS4 and Durango will probably be relatively close. So if 720's GPU is not even 4 times the level of 360 on paper because of "cost concerns" and "heat requirements" or whatever...then PS4 probably won't be too far behind.
At that point though i don't even see the point of releasing a new console outside of desperation because of market shrinkage in your sector. Its been 7 years after all.
The press release could be TEXAN garbage* (and I'm suspicious about dikazz who'll get banned the moment I think it's TEXAN puppet, or disciple), but the Caustic R2 chip is real. That said, having a look it seems well outside the real of replacing rasterised graphics.
*Okay, actually reading it, it's clearly TEXAN garbage.
Inuhanyou
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Raytracing is still pretty far away even for powerful set ups right? So yeah, no matter how much Sega technically spent on it, really would not make much difference unless they had a small pixar level renderfarm running inside that cabinet themselves.
There's plausible and there is spotty. And then there's ridiculous.
There's plausible and there is spotty. And then there's ridiculous.
It depends on the implementation, the only games that I can think of that have GI that isn't baked into the textures is the STALKER series on PC.
It's turned off by default but can be enabled with just a quick edit of the config file.
In stock form it's quite heavy on performance and generally halves your frame rate but the entire thing has 4-5 commands in the config file that you can adjust and with some adjusting you can actually get performance back up while still keeping the effect on.
I have no idea how accurate the implementation is but it's cool none the less
Inuhanyou
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Of course it is. Just like Namco's next cabinet and all the other arcade cabinets. 700 bucks for "super high end tech" is a lot to invest in for a small segment of the gaming market, one that is dying slowly every day even, arcade cabinets xD
Anyways..i think my saltiness came and went in less than an hour in response to bkillian's post.
A custom 1 to 1.5tflop DX11.1 compliant southern islands gpu with 6 gigs of high clocked unified DDR3 ram(with 4 allocated to games of course) and a decent CPU, we'll be pushing Agni's philosophy level visuals at 720p and 30fps out of the gate at E3,
That's fine enough for me if we hit that target.
Anyways..i think my saltiness came and went in less than an hour in response to bkillian's post.
A custom 1 to 1.5tflop DX11.1 compliant southern islands gpu with 6 gigs of high clocked unified DDR3 ram(with 4 allocated to games of course) and a decent CPU, we'll be pushing Agni's philosophy level visuals at 720p and 30fps out of the gate at E3,
That's fine enough for me if we hit that target.
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The leaks thus far aren't talking about final boxes yet, right? So if there is some more exotic custom hardware we won't know about it until the beta kits are out in force. What exotic hardware? I guess we can consider embedded memory, ray tracing hardware, exotic stacked memory or voxel specific changes to be exotic really, I can't figure there is anything else that might make it into the system apart from compute specific tweaks on the hardware.
One other thing, don't GPUs typically work on one type of problem at the same time? So you can't split the GPU to say do different shader tasks at the same time, I.E. soft body physics and pixel shading so that say 30% of the shaders are devoted to the former and the rest to the latter?
One other thing, don't GPUs typically work on one type of problem at the same time? So you can't split the GPU to say do different shader tasks at the same time, I.E. soft body physics and pixel shading so that say 30% of the shaders are devoted to the former and the rest to the latter?
Currently shipping GPUs can work on multiple shader types at one time. VS, HS, DS, GS, PS and CS can all be executing simultaneously.
Inuhanyou
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Its not as simple as that.
If they tack their EDRAM as a framebuffer like they did with 360(we can pretty saftley assume that 720 will have EDRAM), then they could feasibly get 1080p out of it depending on the speed and amount. Its just that the GPU itself will be that level. Circumventing the GPU and taxing it as little as possible with EDRAM supplements was key this gen for 360 having the advantage in many multiplats where PS3 had to loose resolution and detail.
It could be pretty good depending on how Microsoft implements it.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
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My view is that if you walk into any electronics store, 90 percent of the televisions are 1920x1080p. Even the cheap shit like haier is 1080p. My brothers and I bought my parents a 32" lg led w/ 1080p resolution for their bed room for a few hundred bucks. My family spent like 800 bucks on a 720p tv back in 06 lol.
I just don't understand how 720p can be the standard for consoles again, well ps4/720, when 720p is not the standard for televisions anymore.
You would think they would attempt to match the resolution of what is standard to the television market.
Inuhanyou
Veteran
Again, if they implement the EDRAM in a good fashion, Durango will be able to make its games run in 1080p without having to hurt the GPU much, leaving it able to do its own tasks.
Its all about creative solutions for a price point atm. Ironically that's what encapsulates the spirit of a console more than anything.
Its all about creative solutions for a price point atm. Ironically that's what encapsulates the spirit of a console more than anything.
Hornet, thanks for your patient and informative replies these last few pages.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Some more food for thought on possible bandwidth amounts
DoctorFouad
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in other words its basically the already avilable and very cheap DDR3 technology. hopefully sony would use 4 Gb GDDR5.
itsmydamnation
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128 bit 2133 DDR3 ? just under 30gbps. Or maybe 128bit DDR4 which could go from somewhere around 30Gbps upto 60. This plus a big chunk of on die memory make a lot of sense.
edit: 60gbps on a 128bit bus isn't cheap or achieveable with DDR3
edit: 60gbps on a 128bit bus isn't cheap or achieveable with DDR3
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