arijoytunir
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Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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I expect leaks to really start picking up. We're talking about more and more people getting involved with each coming month. I don't think they'll really be able to keep things under wraps until E3. If not already, there will be many several-hundred person teams working on launch titles. That will be a lot of people with access to the information. Hardware production lines are going to start getting developed soon if not already. Too many people to control all the leaks. If Apple can't keep their designs secret, I don't expect MS or Sony to either.
Posting entire leak:
I've only heard bits and pieces, no matter how many scotch and sodas I buy.
Certain devs working on titles not for current gen have production milestones in August. They are apparently under "enormous pressure" by internal tech teams to make sure these milestones are hit. So far, the state of the toolsets has meant delays, however, these are "coming along in leaps and bounds" and hope remains that these targets will be reached.
Performance specs are still in a state of flux although narrowing constantly. I have taken this to mean that the specifications are still being finalised, but a performance range is being targetted. 1080p60 is most definitely being pushed internally.
(*Devkit*)Specs also currently include a discrete gpu. Whether this is to bolster performance to match that from an unreleased customised AMD chipset, I don't know. I also don't know which gpu. I also do not know the performance level of the current kits, however devs working with them are extremely happy with how they are working and say that performance levels are increasing with each iteration.
Evidence of discrete PS4 GPU still remains elusive.
I've only heard bits and pieces, no matter how many scotch and sodas I buy.
Certain devs working on titles not for current gen have production milestones in August. They are apparently under "enormous pressure" by internal tech teams to make sure these milestones are hit. So far, the state of the toolsets has meant delays, however, these are "coming along in leaps and bounds" and hope remains that these targets will be reached.
Performance specs are still in a state of flux although narrowing constantly. I have taken this to mean that the specifications are still being finalised, but a performance range is being targetted. 1080p60 is most definitely being pushed internally.
(*Devkit*)Specs also currently include a discrete gpu. Whether this is to bolster performance to match that from an unreleased customised AMD chipset, I don't know. I also don't know which gpu. I also do not know the performance level of the current kits, however devs working with them are extremely happy with how they are working and say that performance levels are increasing with each iteration.
Evidence of discrete PS4 GPU still remains elusive.
Well A10 dev kit only would have been pretty terrible. I expect console to be APU only, but with meaty GPU in it.Posting entire leak:
I've only heard bits and pieces, no matter how many scotch and sodas I buy.
Certain devs working on titles not for current gen have production milestones in August. They are apparently under "enormous pressure" by internal tech teams to make sure these milestones are hit. So far, the state of the toolsets has meant delays, however, these are "coming along in leaps and bounds" and hope remains that these targets will be reached.
Performance specs are still in a state of flux although narrowing constantly. I have taken this to mean that the specifications are still being finalised, but a performance range is being targetted. 1080p60 is most definitely being pushed internally.
(*Devkit*)Specs also currently include a discrete gpu. Whether this is to bolster performance to match that from an unreleased customised AMD chipset, I don't know. I also don't know which gpu. I also do not know the performance level of the current kits, however devs working with them are extremely happy with how they are working and say that performance levels are increasing with each iteration.
Evidence of discrete PS4 GPU still remains elusive.
Is this about PS4 or Next Xbox?
Hmm... the poster says "1080p60", but of course I wonder if it will be like this generation's "720p30" which really became 640p25-30 for AAA titles. =/
That rumor is about the PS4.
upnorthsox
Veteran
After Dec. 25th I expect they won't even try to keep it secret anymore, though they still won't formally anounce until E3. Publically trade Devs with launch titles will have to start making forecasts for their fiscal year in Jan/Feb and we'll definitely know most everything after GDC which is really late this yr(Mar 25-29th).
I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities that Microsoft gets an early version of HMC for the 720, for the same reasons I think PS4 might be able to use WideIO2, and for similar reasons that Vita got WideIO early.
From what I understand, HMC is very similar to wideIO and wideIO2, it's even using a similar signaling. The difference is that HMC is trying to standardize the TSV part, i.e. how to get each chip from the stack to have a channel down to the SoC. (TSV is not mentionned in the wideIO standard, meaning every company has to do it the way they see fit).
The Vita's graphic memory was wideIO, and connected with micro-bump, which is why they could have a 512 bit memory, the memory chip alone was using over 1000 pads, on a chip the size of a cell-phone SoC. They had a product using wideIO BEFORE it was even an approved standard. That bodes well for WideIO2, they would have to get a custom memory chip again from samsung (close the the planned wideIO2 specs, which is a speed bump from wideIO), just like they did with Vita. In a later "slim" iteration, they can use the actual standard to reduce cost even more, with TSV and what not.
My theory is that stacking of the DDR chips will be done long term for cost savings. If MS (or Sony) go with DDR4, I think they can reduce the physical bus size over time by stacking the DDR chips.
If they go with off the self DDR4 chips, the chips are specified from 2Gb to 16Gb densities and IO from 4x to 16x.
8 GB of ram could be done with 4 16Gb modules, but the bus would only be 64-bits with a max BW of 25.6 GB/sec (3.2 Gbs IO). One I don't think 16Gb chips nor speeds of 3.2 Gbs will be available in 2013.
My theory for the main memory is a 256-bit bus @ 2.4 Gbs, total BW of 76.8 GB/sec, 16 4Gb chips for 8 GB. As stacking becomes commercially viable (around 2015-16, I guess), that's reduced to 4 4-high DDR stacks of 4Gb chips on a 64-bit physical bus (logically still looks like the same 256-bit bus).
Oh, I'm ecstatic with the performance... What were we talking about again?So devs are extremely happy about the performance ey, well are we?bkilian
I'm somewhat relieved that a discrete gpu is still present, but it would only make sense for a 8-10year life cycle.
Sorry, what? How can you put 16 chips on a 64-bit bus and make it look like a 256bit bus?
If they use the stack, it will still be a 256-bit bus.
You won't get DDR4 in a console, it won't even be cheap enough for the average PC gamer to use it let alone to put it in a console that built on a budget.
DDR4 will be the cheapest chips available by far for most of the lifecycle of the next-gen consoles. There will be some markup on it for the first few months, but the prices should fall below DDR3 prices before 2015.
What makes chips cheap is volume. DDR4 is not really inherently more expensive than DDR3. Once it becomes what ships in all new systems, it will be the cheapest available option. Until then, it will still always be cheaper than GDDR5, because it *is* inherently cheaper than it.
A PC gamer can't get DDR4 in 2013 simply because there will be no cpus that have DDR4 memory controllers, which is a statement about Intel and AMD product lines, not DDR4 supply. The ram makers are eager to start their production lines for DDR4, and will probably negotiate pretty decent prices for volume orders in front of the actual introduction of DDR4.
Basically, cost is not in any way an issue against DDR4. In fact, cost is it's major advantage. A simple, traditional DDR4 bus will be cheaper (over the entire lifecycle of the console) than any other memory bus would be. (Of course, other more exotic buses would have advantages in terms of bandwidth).
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Blazkowicz
Legend
yes.. I'm stuck with ddr2 on two slots, upgrading to 4GB would be more expensive than 8GB ddr3.
the latest memory is always the cheapest except for the first few years.
the latest memory is always the cheapest except for the first few years.
I did the math recently for myself and it would be cheaper to buy a new motherboard and 16GBs of DDR3 than to buy 8GBs of DDR2 for my current system. Figure I'll ride out my 4GBs until I can afford to upgrade the CPU, too, since I don't want to sink any more money into AM2/AM3.
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