Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]

[Charlietus]

Yes. We are increasingly moving towards edge compute and more investment in this space will drive even lower latencies and more efficient use of bandwidth. It is a fundamental requirement to move the world towards real-time applications over cloud.

It is one of the core reasons why 5G networks latency is about 4-5ms. Research on 6G networks started 5 years ago and is expected it will be about 100us -1ms. Bandwidth up to 1Tb/s. these next generation mobile networks are completely designed around edge deployments to achieve the speeds that is required while keeping costs much more manageable for telcos.

As we move towards consistent 4K 8K video streaming, you can’t be hauling all that data from data centre to clients. The entire network will explode, there’s just not enough bandwidth to support it.

I can’t comment on your 6E issues. It’s a bit like trying to diagnose someone’s computer issues without seeing it. I have no idea how you setup your 6E and what devices are paired with it etc. any poorly implemented network will perform badly. The reason wired is still solid is because those headaches are removed entirely.

And consumer gear, to be frank, sucks. Major reliability problems.

Maybe 6G will have 0 latency, but unless providers begin offering unlimited data at low prices, no one will deplete their 100GB to play the latest high end game for 3 hours.
Can you imagine downloading something at 100GB/s and finishing your gigabytes in 1 second? It's an oxymoron.

The problem with my network is that the walls are thick brick walls, so unless i rebuild my house it's not going to change in this century or something

Those are fundamental issues for the great majority of people that really can't be addressed in any reasonable way, while traditional gaming in right there, accessible and easy for everyone.

 

[iroboto]

Maybe 6G will have 0 latency, but unless providers begin offering unlimited data at low prices, no one will deplete their 100GB to play the latest high end game for 3 hours.
Can you imagine downloading something at 100GB/s and finishing your gigabytes in 1 second? It's an oxymoron.

The problem with my network is that the walls are thick brick walls, so unless i rebuild my house it's not going to change in this century or something

Those are fundamental issues for the great majority of people that really can't be addressed in any reasonable way, while traditional gaming in right there, accessible and easy for everyone.

We are getting to that point. Data rates continue to fall over time.

For dedicated household instances, 6G may be more viable than fibre just based on infrastructure costs, and these home internet on 5G plans are unlimited but with the restriction that the router cannot move its position, so effectively they lock access to only a few cell towers.

Every solution is not without its problems, they will be addressed in time provided the cost is lower. But traditional gaming as it is, has a cost problem. The industry is trying to do its best to lower costs, but the trend so far is that things are getting pricier and not cheaper. When things get too expensive, people will not upgrade or they will disengage entirely.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

How much of an issue is data centre proximity, and would privately owned consoles being shareable (when otherwise not in use) improve that at all?

 

[Charlietus]

We are getting to that point. Data rates continue to fall over time.

For dedicated household instances, 6G may be more viable than fibre just based on infrastructure costs, and these home internet on 5G plans are unlimited but with the restriction that the router cannot move its position, so effectively they lock access to only a few cell towers.

Every solution is not without its problems, they will be addressed in time provided the cost is lower. But traditional gaming as it is, has a cost problem. The industry is trying to do its best to lower costs, but the trend so far is that things are getting pricier and not cheaper. When things get too expensive, people will not upgrade or they will disengage entirely.

I can't talk about the world, but in Italy, since Iliad has come over, prices have hit rock bottom 3 or 4 years ago, and aside from the lower end providers that offer 100gb in 4g at 5€ a month (that's the one I have), mostly 6-7€ usually, any 5g offer has been going up in price. They sweeten the deal by offering you more gigabytes, but we are talking 130gb to 180gb a month from 9€ to 10€, nowhere near unlimited. And unless operational costs go down somehow, providers have reached the limit.

Wind3 has an offer for unlimited 5g for 35€ a month

 

[Charlietus]

How much of an issue is data centre proximity, and would privately owned consoles being shareable (when otherwise not in use) improve that at all?

Shareable consoles would be a cool idea, but at that point you are at the mercy of the user having a good network...

Also, many people using the same network, which creates even more problems in cloud gaming for both the provider and the user.

 

[iroboto]

Wind3 has an offer for unlimited 5g for 35€ a month

Oh. I pay that amount but for 100GB a month. And that’s cheap here!

 

[iroboto]

How much of an issue is data centre proximity, and would privately owned consoles being shareable (when otherwise not in use) improve that at all?

Some older models like that would be like local arcades and PC cafes.

Data Center proximity is the largest issue for latency and a natural barrier for real-time applications. Its the difference between 1-10km for edge compute vs hundreds or thousands of kilometres for data centers.

 

[Charlietus]

Oh. I pay that amount but for 100GB a month. And that’s cheap here!

That is some outrageous pricing, where are you from? (If you don't mind me asking).

 

[iroboto]

That is some outrageous pricing, where are you from?

Canada.
lol. Yea we have some of the worst rates. It’s a population density issue. Too big a place to cover and too few people paying for the infrastructure. It’s come down quite a bit already, but still a ways to go. The upside is that service is pretty good. We get pretty close to advertised speeds, the level of over subscription is less than compared to some places in US.

It can be cheaper, I’ve seen about 20 euro for 250GB but those tend to be national plans for Canada. But I need high speed roaming plans for US/Canada.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is one of the core reasons why 5G networks latency is about 4-5ms.

We've discussed latency before. The limiting factors isn't so much speed of signals as how many hops you have to do and the whole backbone. I guess if you could link directly to the source, you could get latency down to single digit ms.

 

[Charlietus]

Canada.
lol. Yea we have some of the worst rates. It’s a population density issue. Too big a place to cover and too few people paying for the infrastructure. It’s come down quite a bit already, but still a ways to go. The upside is that service is pretty good. We get pretty close to advertised speeds, the level of over subscription is less than compared to some places in US.

It can be cheaper, I’ve seen about 20 euro for 250GB but those tend to be national plans for Canada. But I need high speed roaming plans for US/Canada.

20€ for 250gb is already more acceptable, but if we don't get to, say, a terabyte for 10€/$, cloud gaming will always be niche. And we aren't getting that anytime soon. I expect 6G to be even costlier than 5G, especially at the start. It's always an uphill battle.

 

[iroboto]

We've discussed latency before. The limiting factors isn't so much speed of signals as how many hops you have to do and the whole backbone. I guess if you could link directly to the source, you could get latency down to single digit ms.

Yup.the idea here is to continually get closer to source. A bit like $L0 cache. Gotta get it all the way down, bandwidth and latency is extremely fast. Keep the working realtime, high bandwidth, low latency, traffic away from the data centers (VRAM).

They can get below 1ms in the near future. Literature and expos I’ve been to, all point into this direction.

 

[iroboto]

20€ for 250gb is already more acceptable, but if we don't get to, say, a terabyte for 10€/$, cloud gaming will always be niche. And we aren't getting that anytime soon. I expect 6G to be even costlier than 5G, especially at the start. It's always an uphill battle.

Yup, the telcos have to find new ways of monetizing the cost of deployments. Faster speeds etc. as soon as they build something specifically for gaming rating streaming, it will be costly. It’s the type of traffic people will pay premium amounts for IOT, networked self driving cars etc.

They already separate 5G into 2 categories: 5G and 5G+ here. The latter having near spec speeds, the former being slightly faster than LTE.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Yup, the telcos have to find new ways of monetizing the cost of deployments. Faster speeds etc. as soon as they build something specifically for gaming rating streaming, it will be costly. It’s the type of traffic people will pay premium amounts for IOT, networked self driving cars etc.

They already separate 5G into 2 categories: 5G and 5G+ here. The latter having near spec speeds, the former being slightly faster than LTE.

The "5g..." is a tech differential, you do need to have different antenna in your phone and they do need to have different antenna in the towers. That being said it's a bit weird to get squeezed for "Xg" and "Xg+", usually that's just luck of the draw in the US whether the tower your near happens to have which antenna.