Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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Well I do not want to sound not respectful of your knowledge but I didn't throw the idea of a dual APU completely out of nowhere.You mean Sony has tortured the devs with the PS3 so long that it's now time for the next hard to program architecture?
I remember the interview of Tim Sweeney and Andrew Richard, Charlie D ( I can't spell his name properly so I passed) made a while ago and both agreed that if they were to be two chips they would favor a symmetrical design (so two APUs).
I also remember reading here, though it's been quiet a while, I don't remember in which thread either, from Andrew Lauritzen's mouth if memory serves right that a dual GPU set-up is not that much of bother to deal with. Again if memory serves right the issue was more the fact that for both the like as MSFT/Kronos (so at the API level) and the (PC) developers it is a non target.
Might be worth a discussion?
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COPS N RAPPERS
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Hmm, If the dev kit is an A10 like what they are saying then 12gbs for the console is way over the necessary. even 8 gigabytes is too much for the job since it's 16x more than ps3. 12 gigabytes would work best if it was a core I7 CPU.
balancing out costs and purposes as what vg247 says sony has in mind, 4 gbs is the realistic number and 8 gbs is if they want much more flexibility. BUT, they can have as much more flexibility if they pick faster bandwidth too so 4 gbs can still be just as good.
12 gbs sounds comical if they're not choosing hardware that typically needs such memory on a constant basis. I've had 16 gbs all at one time my self and saw nothing that 6 or 8 gbs didn't already do...and that was when i playing some games on ultra settings. (PC style with other programs running.)
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It would need to be at least partially re-engineered because the current APUs are incapable of SMP operation. They don't have any coherent linking ability.
I fail to see the advantages. Does someone wants to enlighten me?
Connecting the CPUs is quite managable. The bigger problem is probably the speed needed so that both chips can work on the same frame. I don't want to see AFR. And on top of it it is harder to program for. At least if you want to keep the rendering as local as possible. If you send half of the draw calls to the other GPU anyway, it makes no sense at all to split it up in two symmetric APU chips (you would be better off with a classic CPU+GPU setup).
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APU for games, second mobile APU for OS and Apps.
And you need the graphics part of the second APU for what exactly? That it idles during games AND during normal OS tasks?
And the suggestion was actually two symmetric APUs.
It's certainly possible, just not with existing APU designs that don't have the pad area or necessary interconnect and controllers dedicated to processor communication. To change this would require an APU with IO similar to that of an Opteron, which would be a significant change.
A pair of APUs with 2 full-width coherent HT links could provide each die with around the same peak bandwidth numbers from the remote memory pool as its own, obviously with latency penalties and whatever share the other chip is using of its own bandwidth.
The interface between the two could be smaller, but if you want the most simple relationship for the software to deal with for non-AFR, it can't be too narrow between them.
The GPUs would need to be designed to allow them to readily work together in this fashion. No clear evidence points to that either.
And you need the graphics part of the second APU for what exactly? That it idles during games AND during normal OS tasks?
And the suggestion was actually two symmetric APUs.
OS, Apps, Android games, and Vita games needs GPU power too.
I was thinking that maybe the A10-5800k has been crossfired with a 6570 or a 6670 in the ps4 dev kits, to maybe allow devs to get used to the architecture. And expanding on that what are the chances that the ps4 may well be a Kaveri based APU, crossfired with a GPU based on the 8000 series, or is that to much to hope for?
COPS N RAPPERS
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Technically, APUs don't crossfire well if the chips aren't exactly the same. If you have a high end gpu installed, you get issues do to one chip rendering quicker and the other catching up, Micro stuttering
As a dev kit the A10-5800k coupled with an other 7660D would work to serve good as a "representation" but not in the final product. the reason why is that 2 GPUs running simultaneously consumes considerably more temperature and space for a console............they might as well settle with just one really good APU instead.
so that actually rules out odd and even GPUs coupled together. and If they are going to use a high end gpu ignoring the one on board.....they might as well not bother with using an apu. APUs are good as they are because they are 2 in 1 combos, so they consume less space and power.
If dev kits are using dual GPUs then that's because they really are waiting in the meanwhile for an APU that has the power of both of those GPUs. so far there is no word on the A10 using an extra GPU. we'll have to wait and see.
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What if the GPU in the APU isn't meant to be used for graphical workloads?
COPS N RAPPERS
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you mean a GPU doing a CPU's job?
If anything, a second GPU IF it's not doing GPU work (like how they should) would probably be turning on and off when necessary. like in low power modes or do flashy background effects. even still, a CPU can do all of that already.
edit- Unless you mean calculating extra things like physics, for that i don't know. what i do know is that many games that support APU+GPU do it strictly on the basis of sharing "rendering" work loads and not separate matters simultaneously. (when they're coupled correctly.)
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On the side.
what i find interesting about the A10 leak from Vg247, is that Sony didn't deny when asked if it was true. they Instead said usual PR talk, which is what you expect from ANY company. but they didn't condemn the idea of going with it; saying "There are no such plans" or "If a ps4 was in development we would consider other options".
so far the choices of an APU architecture is a smart choice for them. and the idea that sony is not condemning it, is also very respected of them. they shouldn't knock off their options to save costs.
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The APU is the new Cell.
The GPGPU in the APU will be making lite work of CPU tasks & leaving the bigger GPU free to do the graphical task.
COPS N RAPPERS
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that's probably the more accurate answer "Proelite" was looking for. but still, no word yet has been given if the dev kits are using a second graphics chip. (identical or otherwise.)
so far vg247's info has reached to sony, very little rumors go that far........without getting shot down hard. they did say however in the leak this too.
if the card is additional or dose it represent the one part of the apu in is not explained.
going by their statements in the past they also said.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/08/22/ps4-to-support-4k-resolution-playback-rumor/
and
http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/02/sony-working-on-playstation-4-since-august-2010-says-cv/
so if all goes well we can expect a modified AMD-A10 based console running games at 1080p 60 fps and media at 4k and be as soon as next Christmas.:smile2:
I remember that's pretty old rumor,maybe we need to wait some new rumor to discuss this
Maybe this customized A10 based APU has as total 1.8TF of power when all said and done, the gpu could be vastly more powerful then a 7670 desktop variant "maybe a tweaked 7970 like the original rumor suggest"? But then again I'm not sure if the A10 architecture allows for such a design, otherwise how come there's no desktop version of a similarly powerful A10 APU?
On the other hand, the World Technological Executive from Square Enix is readying to showcase the Agni demo on at least one nextgen console at June 2013. This kinda puts the weak vanilla A10 APU to rest doesn't it since we're talking about something close a 680gtx in power.
On the other hand, the World Technological Executive from Square Enix is readying to showcase the Agni demo on at least one nextgen console at June 2013. This kinda puts the weak vanilla A10 APU to rest doesn't it since we're talking about something close a 680gtx in power.
Because a beefy cooling solution and custom motherboard would have to be made to support it, along with embedded GDDR5. In a console this is a given, but on PC it's not worth the hassle because the benefits are basically zero. While there are other PC's out there still using a discreet CPU and GPU games cannot be designed to take advantage of such a system.
I doubt a fully fledged GCN GPU would ever be used, that is Tahiti or its sucessor, more likely the cut down Pitcairn with lacking DP compute capability, but it's still a fair possibility that this is what the final product will be - an ultra high end APU.
I'm not really that sure what more likely though, the above, or an custom but similarly specced to current APU's coupled with a discreet customised mid-high end GPU.
They don't crossfire well perhaps, but if the GPU renders the world, and the APU renders characters, certain objects and other doodads, smoke, haze, particle effects and so on... Or the GPU renders everything, then the APU handles post-processing like bloom, tone-mapping, depth of field, FXAA, and possibly physics workloads.
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