itsmydamnation
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Wait...
A-10 will beat a eight core 16 threaded e7 series Xeon?
i didn't realise we are now putting $4,000 CPU's in $500 consoles........
but if your code is compiled with XOP then yes it will
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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i didn't realise we are now putting $4,000 CPU's in $500 consoles........
but if your code is compiled with XOP then yes it will
(((interference)))
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Hmm, so maybe it won't have an additional discrete GPU after all, did any of the more credible rumours & leaks mention one (in addition to an APU)? I seem to recall they did, but perhaps I'm mistaken.
The vg leaks article doesn't mention the CPU being an APU and the GPU is not actually specified as being discrete or integrated.
So perhaps this was the devkit with a separate GPU/CPU rather than the APU that's shipping now.
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/
It's interesting as iherre/bgassassin didn't seem to think it'd be significantly weaker in terms of graphics processing than the 720 (indeed bgassasin thought it'd have the edge).
But then again, this might have been when the 720 kits had a weaker GPU (HD6670 etc) and not the HD6870/6950 in the leaked kit.
So maybe Sony have decided to cede the horsepower race to the 720 in search of a more affordable console.
The vg leaks article doesn't mention the CPU being an APU and the GPU is not actually specified as being discrete or integrated.
So perhaps this was the devkit with a separate GPU/CPU rather than the APU that's shipping now.
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/
It's interesting as iherre/bgassassin didn't seem to think it'd be significantly weaker in terms of graphics processing than the 720 (indeed bgassasin thought it'd have the edge).
But then again, this might have been when the 720 kits had a weaker GPU (HD6670 etc) and not the HD6870/6950 in the leaked kit.
So maybe Sony have decided to cede the horsepower race to the 720 in search of a more affordable console.
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i didn't realise we are now putting $4,000 CPU's in $500 consoles........
but if your code is compiled with XOP then yes it will
Well B3d said based on the leaked Durango pictures, that's what's inside the leaked kits. That and a 6870/6950.
Remember we're also comparing alpha kits vs alpha kits. Durango most likely with ship with much weaker jaguars. I suspect the Xeons are required to brute force the emulation of DSPs.
(((interference)))
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When did we find out that the leaked Durango kit had Xeons?
And i'm not sure if the PS4 is going to be APU only (no discrete GPU), it'll be quite weak compared to the 720's GPU.
The HD7660D in the A10-5800K is a good 30-40% slower compared to the GT640 it's benchmarked against. And yet the GT 640 gets about half the frames as a HD6870.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6332/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-a8-5600k-review-part-1/4
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/540?vs=612
And i'm not sure if the PS4 is going to be APU only (no discrete GPU), it'll be quite weak compared to the 720's GPU.
The HD7660D in the A10-5800K is a good 30-40% slower compared to the GT640 it's benchmarked against. And yet the GT 640 gets about half the frames as a HD6870.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6332/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-a8-5600k-review-part-1/4
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/540?vs=612
Because these were the working ps4 specs: http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/
I am not so much trusting these new rumors.
The issue of discrete GPU or no would just be up in the air.
Again it would be nice if lherre would comment on them. He did confirm the Vgleaks PS4 specs, with the caveat they were old.
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But PS3 gaming at 1080p isnt what we want from next-gen...
Well the A10-5800K supports DX-11, it will be able to run things like tessellation too so it's not going to be "like for like" ps3 graphics at 1080p. (and this on the basis if it doesn't come with a second GPU.)
Depends on which leaks you are talking about, If it's APU based like in the old rumors, probably not. If it's that super computer talk that "sweetvar26" was mentioning (8 cores) then the xbox 3 could be 2x the power of ps4.
Anything APU based is far from "high-end" but they are no slouch either, their sole purpose is to integrate, consume less heat and wattage, and be affordable. which is same idea of what consoles thrive off of.
If sony is looking for a strait path to the next generation of gaming at 1080p 60 fps with DX-11, without hardware worries and absorbent costs of cramming stuff into a slim design. the A10-5800K is the way to go.
Well, not confirmed. But the alpha kit is an e7 server tower.
Hard to imagine why they would use that server tower if they're not going with 8 core xeons. From my knowledge 4 core towers look different.
You also have the 16 CPU / 8 core rumors that seem to lend credence to this.
I think the potential a10 in the dev kit is only a stop gap solution that's closer to the final hardware. It's only used because its what's available now commercially.
Trinity is a 32nm product, I think the PS4 will be a 28nm product. I don't think shrinking trinity to 28nm would be as worthwhile as just going with a 28nm Kaveri derivative. The power and area savings I think are too good to pass up.
My guess (based upon the earlier rumors) is that the dev kit progression is something like this a8-3850 plus 7670 GPU to a10 derivative plus some GPU to a final silicon of a 28nm APU That has the equivalent compute power of a 3850+7670 but in one chip, about 1.2-1.5 TFlops.
Trinity is a 32nm product, I think the PS4 will be a 28nm product. I don't think shrinking trinity to 28nm would be as worthwhile as just going with a 28nm Kaveri derivative. The power and area savings I think are too good to pass up.
My guess (based upon the earlier rumors) is that the dev kit progression is something like this a8-3850 plus 7670 GPU to a10 derivative plus some GPU to a final silicon of a 28nm APU That has the equivalent compute power of a 3850+7670 but in one chip, about 1.2-1.5 TFlops.
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Ah ok, but I thought DaE said it was AMD CPU in the end (though he originally thought it was Intel + Nvidia).
Regardless if it's an 8 Piledriver/steamroller cores paired with a 6870/6950 Sea Islands equivalent, with 8GBs DD3 + eDRAM, that'll walk all over a custom A10-5800K.
So I'm not sure about these new rumours as previous ones mentioned an APU+discrete GPU
http://hexus.net/gaming/news/hardwa...bis-rumoured-feature-next-gen-amd-fusion-apu/
http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/04/04/sources-detail-the-playstation-4s-processing-specs
And frankly it makes more sense than to be stuck in no-man's land between the cheaper Wii U appealing to casuals and a significantly more powerful 720 enticing the core gamers.
But maybe Sony changed their mind?
Regardless if it's an 8 Piledriver/steamroller cores paired with a 6870/6950 Sea Islands equivalent, with 8GBs DD3 + eDRAM, that'll walk all over a custom A10-5800K.
So I'm not sure about these new rumours as previous ones mentioned an APU+discrete GPU
http://hexus.net/gaming/news/hardwa...bis-rumoured-feature-next-gen-amd-fusion-apu/
http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/04/04/sources-detail-the-playstation-4s-processing-specs
And frankly it makes more sense than to be stuck in no-man's land between the cheaper Wii U appealing to casuals and a significantly more powerful 720 enticing the core gamers.
But maybe Sony changed their mind?
DAE didn't know anything and was basically trolling with legit pics of the kits.
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There is still time for the chips to be reviewed and enhanced or swapped out for both consoles. according to VG247, January is the deadline for sony. what we know now is that an AMD-A10 (most likely 5800K) is representing the ps4 for developers to start their projects on, and that they are starting or will soon be starting.
Getting projects started for the next consoles should be important to both Sony and MS. regardless of their parts being 100% final and their release dates being whenever , they should be working on some good launch titles in the meanwhile, the sooner the better.
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since amd adopted ati's automated design libraries cant they bang out a custom chip with more gpu with relative ease?
im pretty sure i read that was one of the reasons they were transitioning to it in the first place, in addition to faster iteration, lower power, density etc.
so if it was going to be an apu, its probably going to 2 or 4 jaguar cores, because piledriver just isnt suited to a typical gaming load, its also big and hot and power hungry, you simply arent going to get 4 modules + a gpu of any merit in a package that can be cooled in a console case. never gonna happen.
384 shaders, + discrete also just doesnt make sense. why not just have a single better gpu?
so jaguar cores, if they are indeed going to be x86 at all, and something like 2x 7660d.
makes sense, sorta, if youre convinced its going to be an apu.
im pretty sure i read that was one of the reasons they were transitioning to it in the first place, in addition to faster iteration, lower power, density etc.
so if it was going to be an apu, its probably going to 2 or 4 jaguar cores, because piledriver just isnt suited to a typical gaming load, its also big and hot and power hungry, you simply arent going to get 4 modules + a gpu of any merit in a package that can be cooled in a console case. never gonna happen.
384 shaders, + discrete also just doesnt make sense. why not just have a single better gpu?
so jaguar cores, if they are indeed going to be x86 at all, and something like 2x 7660d.
makes sense, sorta, if youre convinced its going to be an apu.
I hope traditional hardware will be ,not so expensive like Cell R&D
Customized PC hardware should do gfx miracles cheaper for them
It would be a really sad day to see PS4 is being sparsely designed using a dirt cheap bargain bin IGP without any decent discreet gpu. But my gut instinct tells me if Sony is that focused on affordability then there's simply no reason to expect a 2TF sea island next to that A10.
. But my gut instinct tells me if Sony is that focused on affordability then there's simply no reason to expect a 2TF sea island next to that A10.
That's an assumption. We might be seeing a change in what the devkits are required to do, warranting more RAM so that the final console is 4 GBs with a 16 GB devkit. We also don't know what the devkit RAM is. "8 or 16 GBs"? Does that mean the poster doesn't know which of the two it is, or are their two flavours of devkit with differing RAMs. I'd be very hesitant to call platform RAM at this point, other than a safe 4 GBs. If the rumour is true.
Look at iPhones and pads and Galaxy S1, 2, 3, 4s to see how people are quite happy to upgrade to newer, better hardware still. Vita isn't selling not because of the hardware but because of the change in market. That change isn't applicable to the home console space, unless maybe people want to spend less on a console to save more for their mobile devices, so a top-end console should still have the appeal to the core gamer as its always had.
PS3's loss was exceptional. PS2 was a costly box and Sony did very well out of it. Sony aren't going to go as lossy as PS3. Of courser, 'high end' is poorly defined. A high end console compared to its rivals, if they aim lower, might just be a middling spec PC. The consoles aren't going to be competitive with a high end PC any more,.
I think that would be quite easier to achieve than with the PS3
Lets see how the PS3 and 360 compared in terms of performance. Extremely close. Lets see how much they cost at launch? Significant difference.
The additional cost on PS3 was associated to new technologies (Cell/BRD), hardware PS2 BC, the agreement with NVidia (I believe RSX was appearing more expensive than Xenos on spreadsheets), a larger HDD and some small additional hardware features (extra USB ports and memory card slots).
Most likely next gen CPU and GPUs will be modified versions of available technology and will be supplied by the same company, BRD is now a much cheaper standard, I doubt any dedicated hardware will make it for PS3 BC in PS4, considering the cost of Xenos vs RSX this could also cost less, HDD costs have fallen unless they go for SSD and the latter could pretty much be negligible costs
I think you're right. The piledriver cores are big and power hungry (relatively for an embedded application) so Jaguar makes more sense.
At 28nm, I think AMD has shown that they can manufacture a chip up to 352mm (7970) and supply it to the market. Now, I don't think an APU would be that big, but I do think it will end up being close to Pitcrain size ~212mm.
Pitcrain has 20 compute unites (1280 shaders), I think they could sacrifice some of those shaders and use the die area for the cpu core. Maybe 14-16 CU's @ 1GHz and 4 Jaguar cores at 2GHz could fit that 200mm space. That would close to a 2 Tflop SOC, CPU wise way to slow for a PC CPU, but awesome for an embedded system.
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