Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Rangers]

New sweetvar post. He claims to be going through a bunch of documents about this stuff, that he is finding it hard to wade through

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43361814&postcount=5262

Not sure what information is worth while but here is what I saw.

PS4:

New Starsha GNB 28nm TSMC
Milos
Southern Islands

DX11
SM 5.0
Open CL 1.0
Quad Pixel pipes 4
SIMD’s 5
Texture Units 5TCP/2TCC
Render back ends 2
Scalar ALU’s 320

EDIT: Some of those were crossed, may be they were updated/changed at a later date, I have no idea.

I cant get anything out of this...is it an APU? Seems too weak to be the only GPU?

Edit: And another post

Couple of more updates

Graphic North Bridge(GNB) Highlights
Fusion 1.9 support
DCE 7.0
UVD 4.0
VCE
IOMMU
ACP
5x8 GPP PCIE cores
SCLK 800MHz/LCLK 800MHz

800 mhz was what BG/vgleaks said the PS4 GPU was at I think?

He says the PS4 project is called "starsha"

also says some of the documents were old, dated 2010

not very helpful then

he says he cant make much from the info cause it's all in code names and has given up for the night.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I'm going to assume this is an elaborate troll.

 

[Rangers]

I'm going to assume this is an elaborate troll.

Could be.

Googling some of the terms in there does yield AMD related stuff for whatever it's worth.

UVD 4.0 seems to be Southern Islands feature.

"Graphic North Bridge(GNB)" leads to an AMD job posting. Seems to be fusion related term

Etc.

 

[Proelite]

I'm going to assume this is an elaborate troll.

Nope. This guy is legit. He called Orbis chip being Project Thebes before Forbes ran their article.

 

[Rangers]

He may (or not) be legit but his info doesn't seem very helpful.

Matt on neogaf has seemed to hint at the same issues when trying to find out about the Wii U GPU, this type of documentation seems to be pretty obtuse.

Well, a gaffer asked sweetvar to simply scan and upload the documentation. I dont expect that to happen but if it did

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Well, I think this information is valuable as it tells us the APU specs:

-5 SIMD units means 5 jaguar cores plus 5 fpus ( 1 core for redundancy? ).
-plus 320 shaders instead of SPEs

This plus a decent GPU and wide memory system would be a very neat system.

 

[Rangers]

would it? is 4 puny jaguar cores really enough to drive modern games?

I have the same concerns about the supposed Jaguars in Durango.

the SP on there, would probably end up being used for graphics all the time like Cell but even moreso as they're even more suited. I could see Sony once again trying to be difficult and hoping the SP's are used for all kinds of difficult to program weirdness, in the tradition of Cell, but once again they will just end up being used for gfx.

This APU+discrete thing has come up in several rumors before though, I dont remember which ones, or even which console.

It could make sense like that, the first set of specs is the supposed APU, the second set is some sort of north bridge stuff, with references to the 800 mhz main gpu clock speed that has been previously said.

Isn't SIMD a GPU term though? Wouldn't they call them cores for CPU's?

 

[Gipsel]

Isn't SIMD a GPU term though? Wouldn't they call them cores for CPU's?

Yes.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Yes.

Could mean 64 scalar alus per SIMD engine ( 320 shaders total ). Look at this pic:

http://www.bdti.com/sites/default/files/insidedsp/articlepix/201110/ontariozacarchitecture.jpg

 

[msia2k75]

Well, I think this information is valuable as it tells us the APU specs:

-5 SIMD units means 5 jaguar cores plus 5 fpus ( 1 core for redundancy? ).
-plus 320 shaders instead of SPEs

This plus a decent GPU and wide memory system would be a very neat system.

In that case, the key thing is... is there any discrete GPU alongside the APU?
Some people seem to think so...

 

[Rangers]

One assumes, otherwise it would be terrifically weak.

Although we know that doesn't matter to a consoles market success

 

[Gipsel]

Could mean 64 scalar alus per SIMD engine ( 320 shaders total ). Look at this pic:

http://www.bdti.com/sites/default/files/insidedsp/articlepix/201110/ontariozacarchitecture.jpg

The terms are simply a bit mixed up. As others have said already, it will be a GCN based architecture. That means it's 5 CUs (SIMD is the old term which doesn't apply anymore in the same fashion as for the VLIW architectures like in Ontario/Zacate) with four vec16 ALUs (64 SPs in each CU, you can't change that easily in GCN) each, equaling a total of 320 SPs. That's actually quite small as we expect 8 CUs for Kaveri and (if that info is true) would give some credit to the APU+GPU rumors.

 

[SMvenom]

Hi all, I'm new to B3D. I came across these posts from seronx Sept 17th from techpowerup forums. Apologies if already discussed.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2723882#post2723882

Originally Posted by dieterd
good news, but from otherside - is there anything new in gaming world that require/will require something more than one good old hd 5870 to run on ultra @1080? while there will be "newest" consoles with GPUs of XT1800 level... well you get my "optimistic" point of view

Reply by seronx

Wii U => ~5670
PS4 & XB3 => ~7870/670


Originally Posted by Dj-ElectriC
xbox720 is rumored to have the GPU equivalent of the HD6670
PS4 about the same, also AMD based, maybe Fusion/
Both far from HD7870's level anyway.

Reply by seronx

Playstation 4 has 1120 GCN ALUs
Wii U has 400-480 ALUs

5670 -> 400 ALUs @ .775 MHz @ 40-nm
6670 -> 480 ALUs @ .8 MHz @ 40-nm
Wii U -> 400-480 @ 1.0+ GHz @ 32-nm <-- H2 2012
XBX/PS4 -> 1120-1344 GCN/Kepler @ 1.0+ GHz @ 28-nm <-- H2 2013 - H1 2014

Playstation 4 -> APU monolithic silicon (AMD²)
Xbox 3 -> APU interposer (AMD + Nvidia)

 

[AlexV]

Hi all, I'm new to B3D. I came across these posts from seronx Sept 17th from techpowerup forums. Apologies if already discussed.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2723882#post2723882

Originally Posted by dieterd
good news, but from otherside - is there anything new in gaming world that require/will require something more than one good old hd 5870 to run on ultra @1080? while there will be "newest" consoles with GPUs of XT1800 level... well you get my "optimistic" point of view

Reply by seronx

Wii U => ~5670
PS4 & XB3 => ~7870/670


Originally Posted by Dj-ElectriC
xbox720 is rumored to have the GPU equivalent of the HD6670
PS4 about the same, also AMD based, maybe Fusion/
Both far from HD7870's level anyway.

Reply by seronx

Playstation 4 has 1120 GCN ALUs
Wii U has 400-480 ALUs

5670 -> 400 ALUs @ .775 MHz @ 40-nm
6670 -> 480 ALUs @ .8 MHz @ 40-nm
Wii U -> 400-480 @ 1.0+ GHz @ 32-nm <-- H2 2012
XBX/PS4 -> 1120-1344 GCN/Kepler @ 1.0+ GHz @ 28-nm <-- H2 2013 - H1 2014

Playstation 4 -> APU monolithic silicon (AMD²)
Xbox 3 -> APU interposer (AMD + Nvidia)

Please don't bring that gunk here, that's utter noise, and the gentleman spewing them would make Perlin quite proud (I've had the dubious pleasure of being expose of some other nonsense from the same source).

 

[Proelite]

Please don't bring that gunk here, that's utter noise, and the gentleman spewing them would make Perlin quite proud (I've had the dubious pleasure of being expose of some other nonsense from the same source).

AMD + Nvidia.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Hi all, I'm new to B3D. I came across these posts from seronx Sept 17th from techpowerup forums. Apologies if already discussed.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2723882#post2723882

Originally Posted by dieterd
good news, but from otherside - is there anything new in gaming world that require/will require something more than one good old hd 5870 to run on ultra @1080? while there will be "newest" consoles with GPUs of XT1800 level... well you get my "optimistic" point of view

Reply by seronx

Wii U => ~5670
PS4 & XB3 => ~7870/670


Originally Posted by Dj-ElectriC
xbox720 is rumored to have the GPU equivalent of the HD6670
PS4 about the same, also AMD based, maybe Fusion/
Both far from HD7870's level anyway.

Reply by seronx

Playstation 4 has 1120 GCN ALUs
Wii U has 400-480 ALUs

5670 -> 400 ALUs @ .775 MHz @ 40-nm
6670 -> 480 ALUs @ .8 MHz @ 40-nm
Wii U -> 400-480 @ 1.0+ GHz @ 32-nm <-- H2 2012
XBX/PS4 -> 1120-1344 GCN/Kepler @ 1.0+ GHz @ 28-nm <-- H2 2013 - H1 2014

Playstation 4 -> APU monolithic silicon (AMD²)
Xbox 3 -> APU interposer (AMD + Nvidia)

My the stakes surely have risen for the rumors over time, a 6670? i had two of them. as a stand alone, they did SOME games at 1080p but most of them at 1360x768 ( 4xaa depending.) at 1080p Metro 2033 got about 15 to 20 fps (max settings) and in dual graphics 25 to 30 average.

An 88XX would bring those numbers up 100%. if it's not at or above a 77xx series i would say the console won't be feasible past 5 to 6 years.

 

[SMvenom]

Please don't bring that gunk here, that's utter noise, and the gentleman spewing them would make Perlin quite proud (I've had the dubious pleasure of being expose of some other nonsense from the same source).

Such a courteous reply but if I've fallen for the work of a known troll then I do apologise.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Such a courteous reply but if I've fallen for the work of a known troll then I do apologise.

don't take things too personal in this place and in other similar places like Neogaf where complaints are rampant. :smile2:

On the side
-------------

In an other forum on a different site we talked about console life cycles in conjunction with technical specifications between Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony.

....we all came down to Nintendo being on top of system specs for some reason because they travel at their own pace at 6 years on average. at that pace they would be able to complete their term and release a new console years past MS and Sony's consoles with 3x the power.

This is probably why it's best to have consoles be within a year of the first console announced. NOT a year from each other because that's too long to catch up also in sales.

And might i remind everyone, the idea of being in a 128bit, 512bit, or 1gb generation has changed, there are no more generations like that. (technically, were on cores and even THAT can't be accurate do to different performance. So Nintendo can't be pegged on going their route.)


On to topic
__________
As for sweetvar26 on Neogaf He's said a few times he's not sure on the model of chips used for PS4 and XB-3, but the chips he selected would opt for a $400 console. (with console Size, heat and power in checked too.)

 

[LXFBN]

At this point 3+ TFLOPS is wishful thinking.

 

[Gipsel]

At this point 3+ TFLOPS is wishful thinking.

As are 8 Steamroller cores.